Episode 27

Episode 27: Creating Bold Copy with Beth Knaus


What you’ll learn in this episode:

Creative writing can be daunting, but it doesn’t have to be. You may be worried about what others might think of your writing, or you might even feel like it’s not quite where you want it to be.

Joining me today is Beth Knaus. She is a creative content writer and owner of That’s A Spade copywriting services. She has been through it all, and over the last year, she has completely transformed her business, and now she is here to help you do the same.

Today, Beth will be giving you tips on finding your voice, perfecting your creative writing, and how to be bold to overcome the number one thing she sees holding her clients back.

Here’s a glance at this episode:

  • All copy is content, but not all content is copy.
  • People are interested in your services because they’re interested in you.
  • You’re not writing for yourself.
  • Innovation is the implementation of creative ideas.
  • You can’t be in the popular crowd and stand out.

Mentioned in this episode:

That’s A Spade

The Content Development Incubator

Beth Knaus on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook

Schedule a call with Beth

Unmute Yourself, by Nancy Medoff.

Work/Connect with me:

Consults That Convert FREE Training

10K Accelerator

Business and Rejuvenation Retreat

About Beth Knaus

Beth Knaus is a creative content writer, creative workshop leader and owner of That’s A Spade Copywriting Services (www.thatsaspade.com).

As a copywriter for entrepreneurs she’s passionate about writing content that nails her client’s voice and honors their originality so they can stand out from the masses and attract the audience they want to serve.

She’s a published author and has been writing since before the millennium was a thing, from teenage angsty poetry to published stories and essays.

Her initial background is in business and the beauty industry, giving her the ability to get things done and look good doing it.

Beth is also a Pepperlane networking leader, and an active member at the WeBreathe Wellness Center in Walpole, where she holds creative writing classes.

Now partial empty nesters, she lives in Norwood, MA with her awesome husband and their chubby spoiled cat. In her free time she likes to hang out in the city, write in coffee shops, read, cook and laugh. A lot.

[01:02] Jessica: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of the practical mindset podcast. On the show today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Beth Knaus, who is a client of mine and an incredible creative content writer, creative workshop leader, and owner of That’s A Spade copywriting services. As a copywriter for entrepreneurs, she’s passionate about writing content that nails her clients voice and honors their originality so they can stand out from the masses and attract the audience they want to serve. She’s a published author and has been writing since before the Millennium was a thing, from teenage angsty poetry to published stories and essays. Her initial background is in the business and beauty industries, giving her the ability to get things done and look good while doing it. Woman next to my own heart. She’s also transformed her business over the last year, as I have watched her double down on finding her own voice, being bold, and helping her clients do the same. Today, Beth and I talk about all things content and copywriting, and how to think about your content and copy in a way that allows you to show up and tighten, and strengthen, your copy. She also shares what she sees as the number one thing holding people back in being bold in their copy and how to overcome it. You’re in for a real treat, so let’s jump right in. Hello, Beth. Welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you here.

[02:34] Beth: Thanks so much, Jess. It’s a real pleasure. Thanks for asking.

[02:37] Jessica: Yeah. It’s always a pleasure to share a space with a fellow New Yorker, of course.

[02:42] Beth: Absolutely. We should be eating bagels or pizza, or Chinese food, or something.

[02:50] Jessica: I was just going to say the same thing. I was actually also going to say I know we have our difference on the ice cream front with Baskin Robbins and Carvel, but everybody’s got at least one flaw, right?

[03:01] Beth: This is true.

[03:02] Jessica: But really, is there really any bad ice cream? No, in my opinion. We’re so happy to have you here to talk about you, your business, and copywriting, which is such an important thing in our businesses. I would also argue that, in the pandemic and the last couple of years, where we all went from having some sort of an online presence to being an online business, it’s become even more critical that we can speak our voice, do it authentically, do it consistently, and most of us really have a struggle around that. That’s where somebody like you comes in to save the day. Maybe you could tell the audience a little bit about who you are, your business, how you got into copywriting.

[03:51] Beth: I am a creative content writer, and my company is That’s A Spade copywriting services, and I do a couple of different things. I write content for people, and one of the things I like to to say, too, that I think there’s a lot of confusion about, is that there is a difference between content and copy. I have to say this carefully because sometimes, I say it incorrectly. Copy is sales. It’s pretty much you’re selling something, and content can be sales, but it’s everything else. All copy is content but not all content is copy, and I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around that and figuring that out. Anyway, I write all kinds of content for entrepreneurs, and I also run programs for entrepreneurs who want to write their own content.

[04:40] When I’m writing, I do it to honor their originality and nail their voice to the page so that they can stand out from other people in their industry and step into the spotlight so that their niche market, their target clients, can see them and find them, and hear them, and realize that those are the people that they need to hire.

[04:58] Jessica: Well, that’s so fascinating. Now, I have known you for a long time, Beth, and I’m learning something about my writing already in the first five minutes of this. Have you seen, with your clients, do people struggle more with copy versus content or the other way around, or is everyone just a hot mess about their copywriting in general?

[05:18] Beth: I think it, of course, depends on the purpose but if we’re doing storytelling and we’re writing a blog, or we’re doing a fun entertaining social media post, people tend to do that a little bit easier. Some people do. I shouldn’t even say that. When it comes to sales, then you have people who are sales, sales, sales, sales. I think, I’m realizing, in so many levels that it’s about balance and moderation in all things. Me myself, somebody said to me “you probably could write some more direct sales copy,” and I’m just careful because I don’t want people to think that I’m just out there selling, selling, selling. I want to provide value. I want to show them my expertise. I want to show them who I am as a person because, as an entrepreneur, there’s one person and you’re it, and yes, are people looking for your services, but they’re going to be interested in your services because they are interested in you. So, if you don’t show up in the copy, in the content and the copy, then they can pick anybody. So, they really need to know why they’re picking you to provide those services.

[06:23] Jessica: Yeah, and I think it follows the same rule that you don’t want to be selling all the time in your copy, you don’t want to be also not selling at all in your copy, so there’s this balance of doing both of those things well in the right mix to actually carry your business so that it’s sustainable and it’s pulling people in in a way that’s relatable and meaningful, and it’s not lopsided.

[06:50] Beth: Exactly. On either front, because you can be entertaining and tell all kinds of stories, but at the end of the day, you have a business because you want to make a living doing this thing that you do well and that you find fulfilling when you help people with your service, so there has to be sales if you are going to be successful.

[07:06] Jessica: Absolutely. What got you into copywriting? Tell us your story. How did you get into this?

[07:14] Beth: t’s a really winding path. I feel like everybody says that when they talk about what they do, but I’ve always loved writing. In school, I was always a good writer, always loved English, and I think for me, it was quiet communication. When I was younger, it was like you could communicate but you had control over who saw it and who read it and gave their opinion. Whereas, when you talk out loud, you just don’t know what’s going to happen. I did a lot of personal writing for years, I had short stories that have been published, and that sort of thing, but I was a hairdresser, I was in the beauty industry for 35 years in a variety of capacities, actually, as a business owner, and I worked as a salon educator for a hair care company, and I worked at trade shows, and did a bunch of different stuff, but I also went to school for small business management, and one of the things I was drawn to was marketing and advertising. In fact, I could watch commercials all day. I love to see what works, what doesn’t work, what language is it, and I mean, I could talk just about this, about how you can see what emotion they are targeting in a commercial. Insurance is targeting fear, or if you look at prescriptions, they’re targeting freedom and joy, and happiness in your life if you get rid of your eczema, or whatever it is, they’re targeting an emotion and that’s where they’re communicating, so I’ve always been really into that.

[08:34] So, I moved, and I gave up my hairdressing career, and decided that I wanted to start writing part-time. I was doing a couple things at once, and then COVID hit and, of course, I had to decide what was I going to do? Was I going to replace that part-time job or was I just going to go full-in writing? I am grace under pressure, I love those kinds of situations, and I was like “I’m going to go for it. The odds are against me. I’m going to do it.” The underdog mentality.

[09:07] So, of course, that’s when I was doing some research and I had met you, and I decided that I wanted to work with you as a coach who could help me put the blinders on and really focus and decide what I was doing, and push all the other stuff out of the way, and here I am as a creative writer and a creative copywriter, and I’m finding that I really love it. It’s definitely something that’s intuitive and innate for me. Some people have skills that they’re great at it, they’ve either learned them at a certain point or it’s something that they’ve just always been naturally good at, or a combination. I feel like it’s something that’s just always come to me, and I see a lot of people struggle with that, so I love helping people in that way.

[09:46] Jessica: Yeah. Oh, my goodness, I remember when you decided to let that other job go and go all-in, and it was awesome. You just went for it, and you’ve had such tremendous growth and so much has changed for you, professionally, as well as your clients, because of this coming into this place where you committed to what you loved, and now, you’re helping other people really do that, too, and find their voice and go after it. I remember when you started. The copy you were focusing on was different. There was different things that you were focusing on, versus what you’re focusing on now. So, talk about that transition. What made you shift? I mean, you’re doing some of the same things, but it’s different now.

[10:29] Beth: Yeah. I think everybody starts out going, “I’m going to work from the big pool,” and because you don’t really know “what am I going to like? What’s going to work? Who am I going to work with?” So, I was pretty much doing general copy. I’ve always done some website copy, but if you came to me and said, “I need you to write this thing,” I’d be like “I can do that. I can do that thing,” and I found myself doing some work that was good work but there was a lot of friction and it was just difficult and challenging, and taking more time than I thought, and I was spending my time doing things that maybe were not my my top things, so I think it’s just, in some ways, for everyone, a hands-on trial and error kind of thing to realize, you know what, if you’re my client and we’re just working together, yes, I can write your website content, I can write your blogs for you, we can have a retainer situation where I’m doing small projects, but if you’re a cold client and it’s my first time working with you, I might not offer you a sales page or an email nurture sequence, because I like to know somebody really well before I do that work. However, once you’re my client and things are going really well, and the work is smooth, then I take on other stuff with people because at the end of the day, it’s all writing. It’s just a matter of what box are you fitting it into, so that’s how I feel about that.

[11:52] Jessica: So, this is really interesting because I think this is so relatable on so many levels. I think, overtime, having worked with you both as a client and as someone who helped me with my own copy, over time, we find our voice. It gets tighter, and one of the fastest ways that I have found to do that is to do it with someone else who has that skill of writing as an expert and can take what I’m saying and really pull it through the words. Interestingly enough, I think in our business journeys, we do the same thing. We start with this big pool of what we want to do, the kind of clients we want to work with, and overtime, we hone it in and it gets stronger, and as we work with other experts, whether it’s a business coach or other things, we can really dial it in and it gets so much easier, more streamlined, and more powerful, and the results that you get from that are so much quicker because you’re really pulling all of that expertise and all of that focus into alignment.

[12:56] Now, to your point. Once you work with somebody like you, who gets your voice and gets you as you show up, and they start to work with you showing up, then you can work on all sorts of different things and pull it through all sorts of different formats and mediums, whether it’s blogs or sales pages, or social media, and actually even into books, which I know you’ve had some experience with, too, and I’d love for you to share, what are some of the most fun projects that you’ve worked with, with your clients, where you’ve got to do that, where you’ve got to pull it through and see it show up in these other really cool places?

[13:36] Beth: Yeah, I’ve had a handful of clients that I’ve had wonderful experiences that way. The first thing is that somebody’s got to be trusting in the fact that they’re going to give me some creative license and they’re going to say, “she’s the expert, she’s saying I should say this in this way, it’s going to have this impact.” I don’t work on a lot of books. I’m pretty selective and I know myself. If the topic isn’t interesting to me, I’m not going to do the best job for you. If it’s 300 pages, I’m not going to do the best job for you.

[14:06] This past year, I worked on two books that were up to 100 pages, and one of them was Unmute Yourself by Nancy Medoff, and she has a really dynamic personality and really great points, and I think when somebody goes into a project like that, they’re so excited that they don’t want to leave anything out, so they write everything down, and then it’s like “what do we really need to say here?” and you get to really go through the weeds and say “well, do you really need to say this, because if we say this really boldly and directly, we don’t need to say that,” and I think there was that sort of impact in the book where we had to really focus down on that stuff, more like let’s have some powerful one-liners and paragraphs, and paragraphs with content, and what’s going to make people stop and really think about what you’re trying to tell them. So, that was a lot of fun.

[14:57] Right now, I have two clients with pretty bold personalities that they’re realizing that if they really want to up level and get to a place where they can have more abundance in their work and find the right clients, that they have to put that voice out there, and it’s a scary thing. It’s scary, but if you want to take your business to another level, you really need to be putting yourself out there and show who you are as a person, and what can you do as a person not only through your services but you as a human?

[15:30] Jessica: Oh, yeah. I agree. I always say, “if people cannot find you online, the real you, they’re not going to be able to buy anything from you,” because people buy from real people. It is not, I think, intuitive for us to know how to show up in our own authentic voice sometimes, and we bring so much mind drama to the table with that, too. I do it myself. So, when you can have somebody outside of you help you, that’s a huge thing and the whole concept of being brief, I also just want to say that I cannot imagine doing what you do best where you’re taking someone’s words and you’re honing them in, because I think editing of any sort in that way is my worst nightmare, especially when it’s somebody else’s words.

[16:17] Beth: I just had a conversation with somebody the other day. I was in a networking meeting, and she said to me “I really admire what you do,” she said. “It’s not the writing, it’s the editing. It’s figuring out what to keep and what not to keep,” and in the writing world, we have this saying “you have to kill your darlings,” and what that means is, sometimes, we write these sentences and we’re so in love with what they say, and they’re flowery, or whatever it is, and it’s not serving the piece of writing, you have to cut it. You have to do it and it’s tough, so a lot of times we want to leave those things in.

[16:47] Jessica: It’s so emotional. It’s so emotional for the person writing it, versus you have that sort of standard deviation away from the work, which makes it so much better.

[17:01] Beth: One of the things is you really have to think about, you’re not writing for yourself. How is it going to land on the reader? What’s their perspective going to be or their reaction to what you say or, more importantly, how you say it to them? I think we get caught up in how it sounds to us.

[17:22] Jessica: Do you have any tips on how to help somebody do that? So many people I know, and I’ll open up a social media post and it goes on and on, and I am already tuning it out, although I think there’s a place for long posts and things like that, but do you have any tips on something to think about or something to do to try to get it to be more succinct when you’re that place where you’re writing your own copy for something?

[17:47] Beth: I think one of the things to look for is, are you saying the same thing more than once in a different way and how many times do you really need to hit that point home? There’s all different types of editing. There’s developmental editing, where you’re breaking something down and you’re like “it’s the bigger picture. What do we really want to be saying?” Then it comes down to “let’s look at paragraphs. Are paragraphs too long?” or that sort of thing. I think, when you start to look at it in those smaller chunks, even if you use, sometimes I use color coded highlighters to pick out “I said this, I said this already, this is the same thing,” and then you can choose the best sentence of the three and get rid of the other stuff. Fill the space with other information. Pack the value in. Don’t just repeat what you’re saying.

[18:38] It’s hard. Writing takes time, and I think there’s so many things that we have to do as entrepreneurs. You have to decide, if you are going to do your own writing, like any other task, you must commit to the time to write and not only just to write, like “it’s 2 o’clock. I have to write my stuff now.” You also have to be clear on your voice and what you want to say, and that also takes time. It’s almost like a separate entity or practice. Brainstorming or brain dumping, or just really being well-oiled in how you speak, and knowing what you wouldn’t say, and what do people expect you to say?

[19:16] Jessica: Absolutely. Actually, this brings up this idea that one of the things that I saw you develop over the last year was coming into this idea of “how do you write your content?” and weaving the concept of creative writing into business writing, which I think is such a cool thing, and helping people to understand that they’re not mutually exclusive, and through creative writing and through some of the behaviors and steps that you take with creative writing, you can then find your way to write copy or content for your business. So, talk a little bit about that, because I thought this was really ground-breaking, and of course, I think sometimes, people are able to access their writing sometimes through different means when it relates to their business, so maybe their creative writing might be an easier entry point for them, and then maybe, they could carry it over to their business where they might have some blocks around writing for their business. So, talk about how you married the two of those because I think this is fascinating.

[20:26] Beth: So, one of the things I’ve discovered in the past few months is that a lot of people have these stigmas around the word “creativity.” Somewhere along the line, maybe a relative or somebody told you, you were creative, that you were really better with numbers, or that you had an engineer’s mind, or something a little more analytical, separating the two, so people go through life going “I’m not creative” or thinking of creativity as art or something that’s extracurricular or not necessary, but you can read a ton of articles about how creativity is the base of innovation, and you need to generate creative ideas if you’re going to innovate them. Innovation is the implementation of creative ideas, and innovation’s a buzzword in the business world, but yet, you don’t hear it necessarily tied to creativity because that scene is more of like an organic, woo-woo, sort of “creativity I can do macramé or whatever,” but you need that creativity to come up with new ideas, and I think there’s a lot of things that happen.

[21:32] So, people can be told “you’re not creative,” so they just think they’re not creative, or like in the past few years that we’ve lived through, when you’re in survival mode or in defense mode, your senses are shut down. That’s not what you’re focusing on, so your creativity is blocked, and people sit down, and they want to be creative in their writing. You can’t do it in the place where you’re being administrative. If you’re being administrative, you’re being a CEO. You have to switch hats and you have to train your mind, like you do for any other habit. For good sleep, for good eating. You have to, for good writing, good creative writing, you have to know “I’m going to find a comfortable place, maybe I need a candle for smell, maybe I need a comfortable sweater, maybe I need a cup of tea.” You have to set the stage so that every time you go to do that writing, your brain knows “I’m having all these sensory connections. It’s time to be creative, and you can brainstorm there, you can work with prompts there, and build up this practice so that eventually, you go into that space and your mind goes “it’s creative time,” and then if you’re going to write your copy, you’re in that open minded creative zone and you can write your business copy, and you get comfortable and you get confident, and you get clarity, I love these C words, about who you are and what your perspective is, and what your philosophy is. So, even if you’re writing a tip or a resource or something that’s more statistic-driven, you can put your personality and your opinion in there and feel good about it.

[23:05] Another thing I think people have struggled with, is that we do this thing with cancel culture, “what do people think and are we being judged?” That’s triggered by everything we grew up with about “speak a certain way, act a certain way, don’t brag, be polite,” and so people stay above the surface, but so does everybody. So, if you’re one of a bajillion coaches, for instance, you can’t keep saying “I can help you master your mindset and up level your life.” You can say it, but you better back it up with the specifics of “what does that look like for you? What does that mean? What did you personally learn along your journey, your experiences that makes you a coach that coaches in this way?” and talk about the how. I think, for many people, then it starts to get personal, and when it gets personal, it gets vulnerable, so people can pull back.

[23:57] As entrepreneurs, if we work for ourselves, we look at other people around us and go “well, what are they posting? What are they saying? What are they getting a good response to?” But that’s confusing because your people are not going to give a good response to somebody else who’s not their person. They’re going to give a good response to you when you can show that you’re human and vulnerable and have a different perspective that they’re looking for.

[24:23] Jessica: I love this so much because you my drama around writing and copy, and all those things, and you also know, very close to home, my work around mindset and alter egos, and things like that, and I love this idea of creating this ritual, this creativity ritual to allow this part of you, which is there, innate to everyone, to show up and have its own space, to rise, basically, and to pull that creativity and that voice out of the “creative writing space” into “hello, everything is creative writing,” pull it over here into the business writing, and it’s so fascinating because, whether we’re reading an email or looking at a website, or seeing an advertisement come up, the more creative and interesting it is, the more it catches you. The stuff we talk about, and yet we think, you’re right, in our mind it’s like “this is professional. I’m all business over here and over here it’s all the other fun creative stuff,” or you’re right, it’s like the art world is here and then the business world is here, and they’re not. They’re the same coin. It’s the two different sides of the same coin, but they really all come together and when they do, it’s so much more expressive, it’s so much more compelling, and it’s so much more fun. You don’t feel like you’re in this box trying to manipulate these words to come out because you don’t need to do that. You could just let your creativity soar and lead you.

[26:07] Beth: One of the reasons we become entrepreneurs is because we have this great idea not only of what type of business we’re going to have but how it’s going to go, what is it going to look like? You have to let go of any other things that you’ve been holding that don’t serve you, or “I have to be polite” or “I have to fit in or brag, or don’t brag,” or all that sort of stuff, and we’re so stuck in that. We have to realize “did that work at one point in our life?” It’s not bad but it doesn’t work if you want to stand out. You can’t be in the popular crowd and stand out. You have to decide. You have to say, “I’m over here as an independent being and this is what I think works in this industry, and how I make it work by who I am and how I got to this spot.”

[26:52] Jessica: Yeah. What do you see as the number one thing holding people back? Is it what other people will say or this idea of being cancelled? What do you see the most?

[27:03] Beth: Yeah. So, I had somebody in my program, the first one that I ran through, and just the mind drama around “I really want to be bolder in my posts. I really want to say some different things. I’m really afraid of what’s going to happen. I let my husband read it and he thinks I need to edit it.” That sort of thing, and just “what is the response going to be?” Well, here’s the thing about response that I think people don’t realize. We all are on social media looking at posts and things like that. We’re all scrolling past stuff, we’re all half-reading. I mean, think about how often do you really go into a post, especially longer, and actually finish it? Because if it starts to sound like what somebody else is saying, you’re like “I have read this before,” but if you say something that hits someone and they have to stop and go back and read it, that’s the type of content, and you don’t want all your content to be that way, which is another thing. It’s not A and Z, but every once in a while, you want to throw some thought leadership out there, like “I’m not a robot. I’m not an advertisement for the general industry. I’m a human and here’s something I’m going to tell you that might knock your socks off a little bit, but sit with it,” and people are afraid of the response, of people going “Oh, my gosh. I can’t believe you said that, this and this.” You have hit the weak point. You have hit the pain point, and you have stirred the pot, and you’ve made somebody think, and stop and think.

[28:28] That’s a huge thing in any sort of communication today, because there’s so much of it, and people are overwhelmed by what they’re choosing from to read, so if you can stop somebody by saying a bold statement, you’re winning the game, but yet, people are like “what if someone doesn’t like what I say?” Great. Let them get out of the way so that your client can take a look at it. Excellent. You’re not going to work together. Move on. So, it’s just a lot. We have all these fears. You have to try it out to see how it works, and there’s some blind faith, so you have to get comfortable in your writing.

[29:05] Jessica: Yes. Totally. I always tell people it will be right for your right person. If it’s not right for them, they’re not your person. That is just how it is, and the more you could dial in that voice and show up, the more you can allow people to self-select out. Here’s the painful but amazing truth: most people that come across your stuff are going to self-select out or they’re not going to buy your thing, or they’re not going to read it. That’s just how it is, but the people that do self-select in, those are your people, and out of all the bajillion people in the world, you don’t need a lot of people. You just need your people, and you have to show up for them to find you, so I think that is the part that is really it. That’s where being bold is so important because then they know exactly what you stand for, exactly who you are, they hear you, and they get to decide if they like it or not, and if they don’t, it’s totally fine, and then they move on, to your point.

[30:04] I also think it’s really interesting when you created your content development incubator, you created a space to hold people, so I want you to talk a little bit about the incubator because I think this is the other piece of the coin. There’s one piece about the dialing up this creative piece, having the ritual, and doing that, and it’s all the best-laid plans. If I just did all the things I wanted to do and know I should do, let’s just talk about for my copy, it would be a whole different story, but part of the journey is being able to work with someone who can hold the space for you, and you’ve created that space in the content development incubator. So, share a little bit about that because I think this is the thing that takes it to the next level for people.

[30:49] Beth: So, if people aren’t familiar with what an incubator is, it’s a business term that’s been around for a long time, and it’s definitely creating a space where you generate ideas. You come up with things and it’s this safe space of “let’s nurture an idea. Where can we take it? How can it grow? How can it make money?” So, this is the same thing, but for content. I do it now, it’s kind of in three different chunks because it’s a 12-week program, so the first part is this: get in touch with this creative voice that you have, and here are some exercises you can do, here are some things in your daily life, how do you get yourself in that mindset or even recognize where you have creativity if you thought that you’re not creative, and then the second part is: now that you’ve found this creativity, where are the blocks? What are the things holding you back from putting that unique voice, personality, perspective, out there, and then the third part is: let’s decide. What are you going to write? Decide. Like that woman I just talked to was in the program, she talked about this one post for a long time, and it was like “decide. Are you going to write it or not?” If it’s really what you want to say, say it and you’ll handle the other stuff on the other side, but people are going to see who you are and you’re also going to attract people who go “oh, I didn’t know she said that or felt that way. I like that. I want to connect to that.”

[32:15] In that last part, it’s like accountability. We do some co-working, so people can come to the space and work on that writing. It’s not about how much writing, it’s about writing something with that voice, so after the program, you can continue on, but we have the best conversations that come up, people really address some issues and things that are holding them back, and then you’re writing. It just kind of flows. It’s an experience that you have to be in to see. It’s just really powerful. Even writing by hand. People write on their computer so much, especially the younger you are, the more you’re integrated with doing everything on the keyboard, but when you’re writing by hand, there’s a connection to the brain where people will say “Oh, my gosh. I can’t even believe what I just wrote. I can’t believe what came out of my mind.” It’s like cleaning out the vault so you can get to the other stuff, the meaty stuff that’s in there, so it’s just a really great experience.

[33:12] Jessica: Yeah. I can imagine. Like you said, there’s stuff that comes out you didn’t even know was there. That was even part of your message, and I’ve heard so many clients talk about their copy. I’ve been in my own journey with my copy and with my content, and I can imagine that part of the brilliance of the group is that shared experience of “I struggle with this, too” or “I’ve been there, too,” or “here’s how I’m overcoming this.” There’s so much power in being together, and then you are layering your expertise on top of it, which I feel is the best balance of love and toughness, that tough love, which some people, to your point, need. It’s like “we’re going to let you come out of your shell and be vulnerable, and be nurtured, and we’re just going to get it done, and we’re going to hold you to it with some best practices on how best to do that.”

[34:06] Beth: Yeah. It’s really great. One of the other things I really try to talk about in the program, too, is that we go into business to do this one thing because it’s what we know well and we don’t know these other things, so you come across people who don’t know what a CTA is, which is a call to action, in your copy, or SEO is another one. I actually had someone say to me “I don’t know what that is.” We just assume because it’s every day, we know what it is, and people get caught up in SEO and “Oh, my God. I need good SEO, and how are people going to find me,” and that’s very true. It’s valuable, but the thing that I push in the program is, how are you getting people to come back? What are you writing? What are you saying? Why are they coming back? They can find your website, particularly, what do you putting there? People need to hear your voice. They need to hear what’s so special about you, as opposed to other people, if you want them to be return visitors.

[34:59] Jessica: Absolutely, and that there’s a direction to your content, into your copy. What do you want them to do? Whether it’s follow you, come back and read some more, buy the thing. You’re giving people some direction on how they can stick with you and come along with you on this journey, whatever that purpose is, and doing that in a confident way every time, because I think that’s the other thing sometimes people fear is that they’re writing in circles, and there’s no place that they’re taking people, there’s no direction, and I think, when you find your purpose and you find the thing that you want to talk about, you then have a target of where you want to lead people, what you want to share with them, and then you can move them along with you, which is so important because, as you said, there’s so much information, there’s little time people have, and every word, and every sentence, needs to count.

[35:54] Beth: Yeah. It’s kind of like, I like to use two different metaphors for this, it’s kind of like first of all, dating. If you’re on a dating app or whatever, I’ve never been on one, but I hear people talk about it. It’s like you have a little conversation and then it’s like “what’s the next step?” What are you comfortable with next? What are you going to do next? When is there going to be a phone call? When is there going to be a coffee? When is there going to be a dinner? It’s the same thing with clients. They read your post, they’re going to come back, next you have a blog, maybe they’re going to read the blog. So, what do you want? Once they read some stuff, you want them to eventually connect with you and have a phone call, because “do they need you?” or maybe they need you in the future, or maybe they know somebody else who needs you, but if you just keep putting stuff out there for fun, or to them it’s fun, eventually they’ll find the next hot fun thing that they see. It’s like fishing. You’ve got to reel them in.

[36:49] When I talk about websites, it’s like somebody gets to your home page, it’s curb appeal. Somebody pulls up to the curb. Is your house inviting? Do people want to come up and knock on the door? Once they’re inside, are they going to take their coat off? Are they going to sit for a bit? They want to hear about you on your about page, and then are they going to sit down for the meal? Are they going to opt for dessert? It’s optional, so maybe dessert is “here are my services and this is what I offer, and do you want to work with me?” Yes, I will take the chocolate cake every time. It’s kind of like that. How are you bringing someone along? How are you romancing them and building that trust, which is a very overused but very valuable statement?

[37:34] Jessica: Yeah. I love that. Beth, this has been so valuable, and speaking of coming along on the journey with someone and following them, and finding them, where can people find you out on the interwebs? How can they get in touch with you?

[37:47] Beth: I have a website. It’s www.thatsaspade.com, and I am on Facebook as That’s A Spade, and on LinkedIn, I’m Beth Knaus, and Instagram, I am That’s A Spade.

[38:03] Jessica: Awesome. We will drop all of those links in the show notes for everyone. Beth, we cannot thank you enough for being here. This was so valuable. Everyone, double down on your copy and your content. It is the way to move your business forward, and if you’re struggling, go and get some help with somebody like Beth. There are people out there who can really help you take your business to the next level.

Until next week, everyone.

Have a great day.

[38:26] If you enjoyed this episode and want to dial up your impact and success in your business in a practical way, and are needing help on converting interested clients to paying customers, please go check out the consults that convert workbook at my website jessicamillercoaching.com. You can just put in your information and download it right away and take making consults that we sometimes have a lot of resistance around, and we think we have to get people to do something or buy something, to something that you actually look forward to and, dare I say, is actually fun. So, until next week.

See y’all then.