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What you’ll learn in this episode:
Are you tired of pushy sales tactics and generic scripts that just don’t feel right?
Get ready to change the way you think about selling! In this episode, I sit down with Aleasha Bahr, a sales and messaging strategist who has revolutionized the art of sales with her Black Sheep Sales Method.
Together, we unpack Aleasha’s incredible entrepreneurial journey and her mission to transform sales into a collaborative, transparent, and authentic process. From the power of empathy to the art of “pitch weaving,” this conversation is packed with actionable insights you can use to connect with clients on a deeper level and close more deals—without feeling slimy. Hell Yes!
Whether you’re a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode will leave you inspired to rethink your approach to sales and create more genuine connections with your audience.
Take a listen to transform your sales conversations and embrace a more authentic way to grow your business!
In this episode, you will learn to:
- Why traditional sales methods fall short and what to do instead.
- The secret to pre-call education that makes your prospects feel empowered.
- How to handle objections before they even arise.
- The importance of aligning with the right audience for better results.
- How letting go of the outcome can lead to bigger wins.
Mentioned in this episode:
Work/Connect with me:
About Aleasha Bahr
Aleasha is a woman in a male-dominated industry who is calling out the common lies perpetuated in sales.
Primarily, the lie that you have to do things that feel “weird” to win sales and experience hundreds of reps and rejections before you can be “good” at sales.
The truth is, nothing is one size fits all – especially not something as dynamic and unpredictable as sales.
She loves giving people a refreshing alternative – the Black Sheep Sales Method – Because if it’s a fit, it’s a fact and there’s no “selling” involved.
And enjoys giving people the permission to lean into THEIR personal strengths instead of acting like someone else.
In her experience, it ALWAYS sells more!
Has been featured on Rocky Mountain Marketing Podcast, Sales Game Changers, Business Innovators Radio and Outside Sales Talk.
00:01 – 00:07
Jessica Miller
Hello, and welcome to the It’s Your Offer podcast. Aleasha, I’m so excited to be here today. to the show.
00:08 – 00:11
Aleasha Bahr
Thank you for having me, Jessica. I’m so excited to talk with you.
00:11 – 00:31
Jessica Miller
Yeah, I’m so excited for today’s conversation about sales and all the things. You and I know we could talk about this forever. People listening know I could talk about this forever. So, I’m so excited to have you on here as an expert and to tell us all the awesome things that you’re working on. For the purpose of our audience, tell us a little bit about you, your business, who you are so that they can get to know you.
00:31 – 00:53
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. So, I’m Aleasha Bahr, and I’m a sales strategist and messaging strategist, which is very different from how most people approach sales. That means that I understand someone’s offer inside and out, and I put a strategy and sales system around it. And then I recruit, hire, and train a salesperson to implement it for you.
00:53 – 01:15
Jessica Miller
Oh my gosh. I love this. There’s like structure. There’s somebody else is going to do this. It is so good. I love it. I love it. So, when you… So, if we go back a little bit to when we were little children and we were starting our business, it feels like 100 years ago. Did you always focus on sales? Tell us a little bit about where you started with your entrepreneurial journey.
01:15 – 02:04
Aleasha Bahr
That’s a good question. So, I did grow up in a family of entrepreneurs, so I had no idealistic ideas about what it was. I knew it was very hard and uncertain and unpredictable, and I wasn’t really interested in that. And I went into digital marketing, sales, just kind of naturally because I was always just a natural at sales. So, I wanted to be an actress when I was little and I’ve actually found that actors make great salespeople. Oh, interesting. Yeah, they’re really, I like training them and putting them in those positions. But I realized that it was going to be really hard to make money and I wasn’t interested in that either.
02:05 – 02:40
Aleasha Bahr
So digital marketing it was with Mexico tourism and as an account manager I just really cared about my clients. And that is honestly what really good sales comes down to when people are naturals at sales people ask them, you know, well, what do you do? And they’ll say, well, I don’t really sell. And everyone’s like, well, what the hell does that mean? And it’s because they’re not selling somebody something that they don’t need. They’re being very honest with someone about like, I don’t think you need this package right here. This one should be fine. Or actually, I don’t think you’re ready for us yet.
02:40 – 03:18
Aleasha Bahr
You need to go get your stuff designed with this person and then come back and it’s going to perform much better. And people just hear that so rarely that it’s magnetic and they want to work with you. So, sales naturals never have a reason to put words to what they do. So, I’ve spent my time, I’ve had 15 years in sales and 8 of those was in corporate and 7 of those has been ordered with my own companies. I had my own marketing agency for a bit, but then I realized that there was just this terrible gap in the market for good sales training.
03:19 – 03:19
Jessica Miller
Totally.
03:20 – 03:34
Aleasha Bahr
And especially for entrepreneurs. The reason I ended up becoming an entrepreneur anyway is that I have this theory that every entrepreneur was a previously labeled difficult yet high-performing employee.
03:38 – 03:40
Jessica Miller
I see myself in that. I do.
03:40 – 04:17
Aleasha Bahr
Like they’re always trying to change something, right? They’re like, wait, we could do this better. We could, it could be improved. And everyone’s like, we’re just trying to get a paycheck and go home. Could you please sit down and shut up? And I was like, I could only stand that for so long. And I was like, I could do this better. I could. So, I went and started my own marketing agency. But I missed sales a lot. And since there was such bad training, I spent the next 6 years developing my own methodology, basically putting words and structure to selling quote, unquote, like a natural.
04:17 – 04:22
Aleasha Bahr
Since there are people who sell like that, they just don’t teach it to anyone else.
04:22 – 04:31
Jessica Miller
Right, exactly. Yeah, so let’s talk about that. So, you package this up in what way? What were these offers like? Tell us a little bit about that, because I love this.
04:31 – 05:04
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah, so when I first started, I decided to do a pay for performance offer, which sounds like such a no-brainer, right? You don’t make money unless – I don’t make money, you don’t pay me unless you sell something. But human psychology is very interesting. And if people don’t invest something, they don’t do anything. So I was, you know, offering all this support and structure, but it was almost like they felt penalized for selling because then they had to give somebody money.
05:04 – 05:05
Jessica Miller
Oh, interesting.
05:05 – 05:33
Aleasha Bahr
Or something weird. So, I had to switch to a flat rate. And it was really hard for me to figure out like how exactly I was going to work. So, when I first worked with people, I would like be explaining, you know, oh, so you do da da da da da da da da. And they’d say, you know, I really like how you said that. And I’m like, okay, well, why don’t I just write it down for you? And then are you asking these questions in the conversation? Because we need to know this about the person.
05:33 – 06:06
Aleasha Bahr
And they’re like, no, I’m not. I’m like, okay, well, let me write those down for you too. And it evolved that I started creating these frameworks for people based on the audience and offer that they had and also their personality. Like if it looked like they weren’t going to feel comfortable asking that or they didn’t feel comfortable saying that, or if this didn’t accurately represent them, I’m like, let’s shift that because you don’t have to act a certain way, you know? And so, as I started creating these frameworks more and more, I realized that there were patterns to them.
06:08 – 06:17
Aleasha Bahr
And I was able to section out those patterns. And so, I have something that’s proven and customizable.
06:17 – 06:18
Jessica Miller
Yes.
06:18 – 06:26
Aleasha Bahr
I love this. Yeah, it took about 6 years to get there and now I’ve written a book that breaks down the different sections.
06:27 – 07:07
Jessica Miller
Yes. Okay, this is so good. It’s so interesting to hear you describe it because I do have a similar approach. I’ve never heard it broken down and described like that, but that is exactly how it is because there are pieces that are standard in the sense that you can standardize the offer. Most of the time when people have a sales conversation, whether it’s literally on a sales page or they’re having a conversation with someone, it’s going to have these pieces of that framework. But then there’s also this other piece that gets ignored half the time when people create frameworks which is like people are different individuals.
07:07 – 07:53
Jessica Miller
They have different personalities. They have different preferences. The offer drives what kind of conversations you have and in what capacity and in what context, right? And that changes the way that you might take these building blocks that are part of every conversation and actually apply them to you and your business, which changes everything about how that interaction feels, how it lands, how it is perceived, whether it’s successful. Because if you’re, for example, acting outside of who you are, it’s going to come across really odd. It’s going to feel really bad for you. And more than likely, that energetic piece is going to play really largely into the result that you create or don’t create in that conversation.
07:54 – 08:21
Aleasha Bahr
Absolutely. So, if you feel awkward and weird, your prospect feels awkward and weird. You can bet on that. Yeah. Yeah. And so, a lot of sales experts don’t help people with their positioning. Yeah. Which I think is crazy because it’s the hardest part is how do I position this? How do I explain it so that people get it knowing that my audience is the type of person who cares about XYZ?
08:21 – 08:23
Jessica Miller
Yes. And how do you do it succinctly?
08:24 – 08:33
Aleasha Bahr
Yes, in a concise way so that you don’t lose people. And so, I find myself wondering what other sales experts are doing. I’m like, what are they doing then?
08:33 – 08:57
Jessica Miller
Yeah. Yeah. And they’re doing a lot of things, many of which are not landing well with people, which is why they have this bad taste in their mouth about sales, which brings us to your book and packaging this and talking through your method. So, tell us a little bit more about your method. You like figured all these things out, which is brilliant. How do you put it together? Like how do people think through this with your framework?
08:58 – 09:22
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. So, when I first started out, I was like, look, I’m not like a, this is not a pushy sales approach. It doesn’t feel like sales. So, I called it subtle selling. Nobody really understood what that meant. It was the beginning of, a technique that I teach called pitch weaving.
09:22 – 09:24
Jessica Miller
Okay. Oh, I love that.
09:26 – 09:38
Aleasha Bahr
So, since nobody understood what that meant, I moved to sales for introverts, but people don’t know that they’re an introvert because they think that it’s about being shy or extroverted or outgoing. Yeah, they have
09:38 – 09:40
Jessica Miller
their own preconceived idea of that.
09:40 – 10:16
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. So, a lot of people just didn’t know. It’s really about the energetic, if people drain you. And my theory is that introverts get drained because they’re so in tune to the other person and adjusting themselves for the other person in the conversation that it’s kind of exhausting and also very powerful for sales, I might add. So, then I evolved from that to the matchmaker sales method because it’s about fitting. So, I realized that what I was doing mostly was fitting. If it’s a fit, then it’s a fact and there’s no selling involved. You have this criteria, right?
10:17 – 11:00
Aleasha Bahr
This is like my anti-audience. So, everybody always focuses on their audience, but not their anti-audience. And you have to have more criteria than they’re broke for your anti-audience. Or not coachable or whatever. And you need to have more criteria for your ideal audience than they have a credit card and they take direction or they respond or whatever. So, the matchmaker sales method was where I was for a while, but it just never felt quite right because it feels like little old ladies. So, the black sheep sales method has been the last year and it seems to really speak to people.
11:02 – 11:36
Aleasha Bahr
It evolved to that because you know, an offers the messaging so much, you’re trying to call out your ideal audience and you’re like, how do they know? How do they know that I’m the 1? So, so many sales are like alpha sales bros, like it’s like the company name and stuff like that. So that those people know that that’s their people. And I wanted something that was not those people. I don’t want those people. And I wanted the people who don’t want that to know that I was like their beacon, right? And in, there was this one week where I was, I’ve always been a black sheep in my life in pretty much every way, even though I look like a suburban mom.
11:37 – 12:10
Aleasha Bahr
I open my mouth and everyone’s like, oh, she’s different than what I expected. So as a mother, as a woman in sales, and I was talking to one of my clients about it and they were like, yeah, I’ve always been a black sheep too. And I talked to the second client that week and they were like, yeah, I’ve always been a black sheep too. And then when the third one said it, I was like, oh, maybe this is what I’m looking for. Because I could also tell that everybody kind of had this negative association with it.
12:10 – 12:47
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. And like carried a little bit of like, I don’t know, embarrassment or shame about it. And the experience of a disruptor, which is a black sheep, somebody who just does things differently, is they get this resistance from people, I think because people feel like you should be doing it like me or else that means that I’m doing it wrong and I don’t want to be wrong. I think that’s where it comes from, but it’s a really unpleasant experience. And they try to do it the way that everybody says to do it, but it just doesn’t work for them.
12:47 – 13:12
Aleasha Bahr
And sometimes people admit it and just do it their own way. And sometimes people live in that lie miserably for the rest of their lives. And the thing is, we need other ways of doing things. I have a theory that probably that the minority of people want to implement sales in this pushy, aggressive, manipulative way. I think that the majority of people are probably, quote unquote, black sheep.
13:12 – 13:41
Jessica Miller
I was just going to say that, actually. I think in some area of our business, and sales tends to be one of those areas, many people are walking around feeling disjointed, misaligned. They feel like they’re weird or they feel like they’re the black sheep and they know it because they feel it, but they don’t know what to do about it. And they think there’s something wrong with them. Why can’t I just sell like this person? Because look, they’re doing it. And I see them on Instagram and they have a bajillion people and all the flashy posts.
13:42 – 14:01
Jessica Miller
And they’re like, I think especially for women, we start to check the boxes of all the things. We’re like, okay, I did that, did that, did that. None of it’s working, none of it’s working. So, there’s one common denominator and that common denominator is me and I suck at sales. They start to like identify that, which is So not true.
14:01 – 14:10
Aleasha Bahr
It’s heartbreaking. It breaks my heart. And I know people who quit their business because they don’t figure out how to sell. And then there are these…
14:10 – 14:15
Jessica Miller
It’s such an important part of you thriving as a business owner. You have to be able to sell your stuff.
14:16 – 14:21
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. And if you can’t, then you’re like, is something wrong with my stuff? Is something wrong with me?
14:21 – 14:24
Jessica Miller
Right. I’m not meant for this, whatever. Totally.
14:26 – 14:31
Aleasha Bahr
And then a lot of times women, there’ll be a female sales expert, but She’s just the same thing in heels.
14:33 – 14:33
Jessica Miller
And
14:33 – 14:45
Aleasha Bahr
so, the average woman has natural skills, just natural skills that are really great for the black sheep sales method. The foundational principles of it are empathy, curiosity, and passion.
14:46 – 14:46
Jessica Miller
Love.
14:47 – 14:54
Aleasha Bahr
Because really people just want to feel seen and heard and a sales conversation is making someone feel seen and heard.
14:54 – 14:58
Jessica Miller
And holding the space for them to be whoever they are in that moment.
14:58 – 15:34
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah, and support them. And if it’s a fit, like you have a solution that meets their need and they have whatever expectations that line up with what you offer and they have whatever things in place that they need to have in place, then that’s exciting because we can solve this together. And it’s a much easier transition into the sale to just say, okay, this checks out this checks like, let’s do it. And so much of the mainstream sales that the theory that I have is that it will for a long time, it was just aggressive men selling to aggressive men.
15:35 – 16:22
Aleasha Bahr
So, they understood and liked that strategy and responded well to it like this peacock game, kind of. However, there’s so much diversity now in buyers and sellers. If you approach a woman like that, she’s not going to want to buy your stuff. And a woman implementing like that, who is not naturally like that, is going to not work. And then you add in different socioeconomic backgrounds and cultures. And it’s so necessary, like that at this point, that strategy works a minority of the time at this point. So, for the future of sales, a new approach, an evolution is absolutely necessary to continue to be effective.
16:23 – 17:00
Aleasha Bahr
And that is what the Black Sheep sales method offers, is a way to have a transparent, collaborative conversation. So, the entire conversation is really holding mainstream sales is everyone is a yes. You want to get that credit card. It doesn’t matter. It’s a yes. And if you don’t get a yes, it’s because you’re bad at sales and you failed. And the black sheep sales method is really holding space for the other person to not be a fit and that to be okay. So, I think when people think of a black sheep, a lot of times it’s like this person with like middle fingers in the air or whatever.
17:01 – 17:13
Aleasha Bahr
That’s not this black sheep. This black sheep is like no judgment. Like if you need the cheapest option, that’s just not me.
17:13 – 17:14
Jessica Miller
Right. Yeah.
17:14 – 17:26
Aleasha Bahr
I’m just not the cheapest. If you’re looking for high volume and cheap, that’s not me. And like that, there’s no judgment that that’s what you want. I just want to get you connected with the right thing that you need.
17:26 – 17:54
Jessica Miller
Totally. I think one of the most revolutionary things I ever learned in sales was to let go of the outcome. If you can show up and hold the space for people, if you can like empathize with where they are, really listen for what they need. You know, for me, for my brand, it’s all about, hell yes, like, is it energetic? Like, are we vibing here? It is such an intuitive thing. I used to ask in my sales conversations, like, okay, what do you think? On a scale of one to 10, how important is this to you?
17:54 – 18:36
Jessica Miller
If somebody would say A2I would be like, do not waste your money working with me. Are you kidding me? That doesn’t make sense, right? Go spend your money someplace else that’s a 10 for you. So, there’s these pieces of it where you’re just there and you’re listening and then you’re basically saying, whatever the end result is, it’s fine. I’m not attached to that outcome. I would love for you to be a yes and for me to help you, but if you’re a no or it doesn’t make sense, that is also a win. Because like you were saying before, it’s important to know who your people are and who they aren’t, and if they’re not your people, I mean, I feel like this was another huge thing.
18:36 – 18:46
Jessica Miller
Like, let them down on the sales call. Let them down in your marketing. Do not sell them your program. And then have it be the thing that’s not going to be what they need.
18:47 – 19:12
Aleasha Bahr
The world, can you imagine how many less people would be burned, quote unquote, if everyone approached it like that? Like, if you could just be honest with someone that this is not what you’re looking for and this is not going to work for you. So, like for example, if somebody has a widget that’s $100, that’s probably not a fit for me or Jessica.
19:12 – 19:18
Jessica Miller
Right. Yeah. You don’t need to sell it this way for that to work for you. It’s a different funnel.
19:18 – 19:53
Aleasha Bahr
You need like an e-commerce expert or something. And if I said that, if I didn’t tell you that and I just sold you something and then didn’t help you and you couldn’t get a return, I mean, that is what often happens. And so, it’s also going to create a lot of nightmare clients. So, you know, I really focus most on service providers who have longer term client relationships. It’s not like you sell it and you leave and then I never see you again. Right. Even if it’s like 30 days. So, I mean, have you experienced this, Jessica, that some money is not better than no money?
19:54 – 19:59
Jessica Miller
Some money is not better than no money. Yes, I have definitely experienced that.
20:00 – 20:42
Aleasha Bahr
You’re like, with a client who’s like, doesn’t feel right, but some money is better than no money. So, I’m going to go I’m going to go with them, especially if you’re in like a financial spot where you feel like you have to. And it ends up draining so much energy and so much money and it takes you away from the high-quality people. So, so much of the black sheep sales method is avoiding nightmare clients. You want to look at the patterns in the people who say yes in a sales conversation and the patterns and the people who say no, and you want to look at the patterns who say yes, of people who say, who are happy with their results and the patterns and the people who are not happy with the results.
20:45 – 20:47
Jessica Miller
And then reverse, you just made the, I was
20:47 – 20:48
Aleasha Bahr
gonna ask
20:48 – 21:15
Jessica Miller
you like, in your method, tell us a little bit more about that. Is there sort of that diagnostic strategic piece? And then there’s that tactical, like, here’s the 3 things during the call you wanna really lean into when you’re speaking to people. Tell us a little bit about that because I agree, right? There’s this contextual component to the sales conversation as well. It doesn’t happen in isolation like, oh, it’s all just about the conversation. It’s all the other things around it too.
21:15 – 21:32
Aleasha Bahr
It’s a system, yeah. So, I do an intense diagnostic process with a client. And then from that, we create the pieces that people are going to see before the sales call, too. Because a lot of times, you are trying to educate and sell in the same conversation, and you just can’t do that.
21:32 – 21:32
Jessica Miller
Sure.
21:32 – 22:06
Aleasha Bahr
And you know you did that when somebody says, this is a lot to process. Let me get back to you. So sometimes there are situations where people need to know ahead of time some information in order for you to have like a laser targeted conversation. So, for example, I worked with a book marketing coach and people would often be upset that when they publish a book, people didn’t read it. But you have to promote it. And then they would also be upset that they weren’t going to make the money back from book sales. But nobody makes money with book sales.
22:06 – 22:48
Aleasha Bahr
You have to leverage the book a different way for speaking opportunities or for leads or for funnels where you upsell them into things. And so anyway, we would send this information ahead of time. Like, let me know you can make, I just want to let you know, you can make money with a book. It’s just not through book sales. So, like, nobody does that. And it allowed her to have a more structured conversation where people could then move forward. So those kinds of elements ahead of time help a ton and giving them resources ahead of time that are basically filtering them out and even calling out and saying if you’re for her in her case like if you’re looking for a done for you social media agency like that’s not me, I’m not going to post for you.
22:48 – 23:21
I’m going to create the strategy with you. So, if you’re looking for somebody who’s going to come up with a strategy that leverages your book so it gets more visibility and readers, then I can’t wait to talk to you. If you’re looking for somebody to create the content and post it for you, that is not me. Let me know, and I will connect you with vetted and trusted resources. So that kind of upfront language. And then in the sales conversation, the questions you ask are definitely understanding what challenge they’ve been in. So, what happens a lot in mainstream sales is somebody comes to a call and they’re like, got a big problem and it’s gross and nasty.
23:22 – 23:56
And they’re like, it’s been hard and I tried this and I tried that and then I wasted all this money. And then the salesperson is like, and how long have you been doing that? And it’s like, this person just showed you their bloody heart and just kept walking past it. Acknowledge that that sucks. I’m so sorry. That’s really frustrating when you’re trying all of these things and you want to fix it and you’re not investing, you’re not putting effort and energy in. And the reason that that often happens is, and you give some insight into their situation.
23:56 – 24:35
So that’s what I call pitch weaving. It’s the empathy plus the insight. And it leverages the discovery part of the conversation because so often in mainstream sales, the structure of a sales conversation is an interrogation with no feedback on someone’s answers and then a pitch where someone’s talking alone for like 10 minutes. And it’s a really big missed opportunity because if you’re just going to talk alone in 10 minutes, like someone is zoning out. Like they’re not, they’re not listening. And they also know you’re quote unquote pitching. So, their guard is up. They’re like expecting that you’re embellishing and exaggerating.
24:35 – 25:17
So, to instead pitch weave in this way in the discovery section is really going to make the quote unquote pitch section of your conversation a lot less heavy lifting. Because they’ve already heard so much. And when I say pitch weaving, I’m not saying that you’re saying we do this and we do that. There’s no we weeing. It’s offering insight that let them know that you’re an expert. So, in Jessica’s case, for example, someone might share that they have this great offer and the beginning of the offer, they’re offering some like swipe file stuff. And but their offer is a done for you offer.
25:18 – 26:05
And they’ve put all this money behind these swipe files, and it’s just not working. And everybody who comes to them is broke. And Jessica would say, that’s really frustrating. First of all, I love that you’ve tried those things, so you know you have that data. That’s important. And often the issue is that someone who wants a swipe file is a DIY client. And you’re looking for a done for you client. At no point did Jessica say what we do. But the implication is that Jessica helps you with that. So, when she gets to the section where she explains what she does, she’s able to say, we look at that message upfront and how it matches with the client need on the back end.
26:05 – 26:50
And it’s not the first time they’re hearing it. So, it lands different and better for them and they remember it and they retain it. And then also in the explanation of service check section, you wanna ask checking questions that are not make sense and sound good. Because have you ever had somebody say, yes, that makes sense, and then they say something at the end of the conversation that makes it very clear that nothing made sense? That question is not giving you any valuable information. So, you want to ask something specific. So, let’s say that Jessica explains, I’m going to look at your fulfillment as well as your marketing, because a lot of times they are not aligned.
26:51 – 27:30
And that creates a bunch of problems. Have you ever aligned your marketing and fulfillment before? She’s gonna ask a question about something that she does, so the other person can sit there and think and say, you know, no, I haven’t. And they’re going to remember that better about Jessica. So those are some of the things. It’s hard to give all of the things in the methodology, but hopefully you get the impression that it’s like a very collaborative, natural flowing, transparent conversation instead of how can I back this person into a corner or manipulate them into saying Yes?
27:30 – 28:04
Jessica Miller
Right. It’s not even about saying yes. It’s really about uncovering what is going on here? What is getting in the way? What do you think about that? one of my favorite questions to ask is, why do you think that is? If you ask them, hey, have you aligned your front-end marketing to, have you ever done that in a formal way? And they’re like, no, actually I’ve never. I’ll ask them. Well, why not? Like for real, like I’m asking. And some people are like, I just never thought about it. Or actually because we did this other thing and it didn’t work.
28:04 – 28:36
Okay, tell me about that. What about this other thing? So, you really, I mean, you think about if your best friend was sitting across the table from you, telling you about something that’s going on in her life that she’s really upset about, would you be like, oh, that’s interesting. So, there’s this other thing. Okay, let’s talk about that. You wouldn’t, you would be, oh my gosh, tell me what, why? Right, you really are invested in understanding what is going on there. So, you could give her the best advice. And I don’t know if you ever got this Aleasha, but when I was a kid, people would say, Jess, you’ve never met a stranger.
28:37 – 29:03
And I was like, no, I haven’t. Because I just felt so connected to people. I just found them so fascinating that I would want to know everything going on. Like, oh yes, that sucks. You’re right. Whatever. That latte should have had the cream on the top, you know, whatever. I mean, you could so relate to it. And then there’s some people where you, like, never met a stranger. And then you talk to them, and you’re like, no. They don’t understand the cream on the top of the latte thing. We are not meant to be, you know, any type of a thing.
29:03 – 29:24
But you really start to ask those questions of what is underneath it. And people do. They feel like you see them. They feel like you get them. And they genuinely understand that you want to help them because you’re not there to help them just by them buying from you. You’re there to help them figure out the best next step.
29:26 – 30:01
Aleasha Bahr
Yes. Jessica, you are probably really great at sales. What you’re talking about is genuine curiosity and I’m the same way and that makes me think that you’re probably an introvert because introverts are typically like, I want to know more about this other person. And I do find it genuinely fascinating. And that’s why you can’t have a word for word script, because it is an organic conversation based on you saying this, I want to ask this next question. So, it’s like some sales experts talk about tone a lot, which is really distracting from keeping you present in the conversation.
30:02 – 30:36
Instead, it’s just set your intention for the conversation to be, I just genuinely want to know what this, what happened to this person and if they’re a nightmare client. So, when you tell me that something didn’t work, I want to know more because I don’t know if that’s you or the other thing. So, like really, you know, genuinely digging into it. And then, you know, you want to ask the objections usually get up front, or the issues with nightmare clients that you have up front. So, do you have someone who’s going to be able to implement this for you?
30:37 – 30:55
Because if you don’t have somebody, a lot of times, people just don’t do it. And then you’re not going to get the result. So, I want to make sure you got somebody like a VA or an assistant or somebody. So having those kinds of conversations up front so that there’s not those objections at the end. And then when there is an objection, being genuinely curious about it.
30:55 – 31:23
Jessica Miller
Totally. Yeah. I think that’s so interesting about asking about the objections up front. I have never thought about that. So, tell us, that’s an interesting thing about implementing. What are some of those other things that you feel like your clients, I mean, pricing, things like that, I mean, would you bring those things to the front of the conversation? Or is that really part of your methodology of giving that education so they have some of those objections either overcome or they know the answer to them before they get on that call?
31:24 – 31:54
Aleasha Bahr
I want them to know the answer as much as possible before we get to the end of the conversation. So mainstream sales is saving the objection for this battle at the end. And it’s exhausting, and it’s the end of the conversation. Everybody’s tired. It’s the worst time for this to happen. So instead, just being, and they are not able to hear you the same, because they’re expecting you to quote unquote overcome their objection. So instead, using it as a point of like fitting in the beginning of the conversation. So, some popular ones are like, how much time do you have to invest in this?
31:55 – 32:38
And if they have 2 hours a week and that’s all you need, fantastic. Sometimes they’re like, I have no time. But if you’re able to collaboratively discuss, well, how much time do you have? A lot of times they can find time somewhere else. But if you’re just overcoming the objection and steamrolling them, they’re not going to have that realization the same way as if you’re having a collaborative, genuinely curious conversation about it. So, another one that can come up a lot is like when I work with, let’s say, mindset or less like tangible things. Are you open to the idea that your life is influenced by you more than external circumstances.
32:40 – 33:10
If they’re not open to that, we can’t move forward in this conversation. Like if you think that you’re a victim of everything that happens to you, there’s no way that we can like work with that. So, some other common ones like, you know, do you need a done for you agency? Do you have somebody to do this for you? Do you hate social media? Some people offer like a service that’s social media centric and people will be looking into it who hate it. And it’s like, I can’t help you if you hate it. Like I’m not gonna fight that battle with you.
33:10 – 33:33
Like you need to be open to it. So, try something else. You don’t have to do social media. Why don’t you look at networking? Why don’t you look at hosting events? You can help them in a different way. And so that kind of conversation at the forward beginning of it helps so much with them being more honest and open with you too.
33:33 – 34:06
Jessica Miller
Yeah, I love that. I found also that strategically fitting those questions in as part of the cadence of the conversation versus like there’s an objection piece, like, you know, okay, let’s talk about what are you yes or no. Okay, now objections are going to come up here. Like weaving them in. If someone, if you’re working through a thought process with them and there’s a lot of resistance around the time that they have, but they’re seeing the value or you’re talking through it and they’re like, oh my gosh, yes, I could see how that would work.
34:06 – 34:20
I mean, sometimes I’ll ask them like, do you think you could find an hour a week to make that part of your routine sales process or routine whatever? And they’re like, I think so. Okay. Time objection gone.
34:21 – 34:27
Aleasha Bahr
Exactly. And you’re being genuinely transparent and honest with them about it. It’s okay if you don’t.
34:27 – 34:28
Jessica Miller
Right. Exactly.
34:28 – 34:29
Aleasha Bahr
And you can ask. Or you
34:29 – 34:53
Jessica Miller
don’t want to, right? A lot of times people have the time, but it’s not valuable enough for them to actually use the time for that. And that’s okay too. But you don’t want to sell them something that’s untrue or, yeah, it’s only going to take 5 minutes. You’re like, no, it’s going to take a solid hour. Like here, you want this result? It’s a solid hour. It’s not 5 minutes. 5 minutes is a different offer, you know?
34:54 – 35:20
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. For me, I need people to communicate with me in real time. Like I can ask you a couple times, but I cannot babysit you. The more you communicate with me, cause I have like a real time Slack channel in addition to a lot of other types of support, but that 1, like, I need to know how did the call go? How should we’re going to craft the follow-up messages together. We’re going to craft the text messages, not text messages together. If you don’t tell me, I can’t help you, and then you’re going to lose the sale.
35:21 – 35:28
I cannot possess your body for you and make you do it. So, are you able, are you somebody who can do that?
35:29 – 36:03
Jessica Miller
I think that’s also another really important piece from a personality sort of fit. I remember discovering for myself that I am a person who loves to work with, let’s go and not help me. Like if you’re a drag me off the starting line person, I am not your person. If you are running, I will run alongside you.” And it took me a long time to figure that out, but in the conversations, I have, I am looking for that. Like, what have you done? What was that like? What would you think about this thing? What would you do in this situation?
36:03 – 36:32
Like if there are a let’s go, I know that that is gonna work. And to your point, it’s important people understand that for what they’re selling. Because if you’re like, just go into the course and do it yourself and like complete it and I’m nowhere to be found, that’s totally fine. There’s no judgment. But you don’t want to sign or sell this to the person that needs to talk to you a lot, where those conversations need to happen more asynchronously and consistently. Or it’s their personality that they just want to go, go, go really fast and they need access.
36:32 – 36:47
So, understanding that, tailoring your conversation, your offer to that, all of those pieces, makes it a very different conversation and makes it feel less clunky when all that stuff is lining up.
36:48 – 36:56
Aleasha Bahr
Yeah. The confidence that you have when you find that let’s go person, you’re like, I can do this. We can do this. They can feel that difference.
36:56 – 37:24
Jessica Miller
Totally feel it. Totally. Yeah. My husband used to tease me like, who’s more excited, Jess, you or them? I’m like, me, of course. I feel like you could just, because you’re seeing all that possibility. And that’s the other part about it. Like you can stay in that energy. It’s not about them buying. It’s not even about them buying now. It’s like you’re holding the space when they are not there. If they were there already, they would have already bought your thing, right? But they’re in this space of, you know, in between belief or needing some more information.
37:25 – 37:36
And when you can just stay grounded in that, and you’re not worried about what they’re gonna say, where it’s gonna go, what’s gonna happen. Like, It’s just a conversation. It becomes so much more fun for everybody. It’s so much more powerful.
37:36 – 37:49
Aleasha Bahr
It’s genuinely more fun. And the empathy that they are so scared of making the wrong decision. Totally. We all are. And I don’t want you to make the wrong decision either. Let’s talk about it. What would the wrong decision look like? Let’s make sure that this isn’t the wrong decision.
37:50 – 38:22
Jessica Miller
Yeah. Let’s go there. I mean, I’ve definitely had that conversation on sales calls. Like you’re right, worst case scenario. Okay, let’s go. What happens if that happens? Let’s talk about it. Because sometimes people are not making the decision based on their perception of something that doesn’t have to be the reason, they don’t get everything that they want. I mean, there’s so many times where, to your point earlier, people just brush by it. And I’m like, this thing here that you’re misunderstanding about yourself or about the situation is standing in the way of everything you want.
38:22 – 38:29
Like, let’s figure this out because that could be very true. Like, it makes sense what you’re saying. It could also be completely false.
38:30 – 38:52
Aleasha Bahr
Exactly. That genuine curiosity of like, because a lot of times in objection handling, you just overcome it and it makes the person feel dismissed and invalidated. Totally. Like, it’s like if your friend’s like, I don’t know, but does this dress make me look fat? You’re not going to be like, what? You would be like, what makes you say that? You know, you’d try to understand.
38:54 – 38:58
Jessica Miller
You wouldn’t joke about it. Why are you feeling that way? Yeah. What is it about the dress?
38:58 – 39:00
Aleasha Bahr
Right. So, we can figure out. If you’re like,
39:00 – 39:04
Jessica Miller
I don’t like sleeveless, you’re not going to be like, well, but it’s an awesome sleeveless dress. Yeah.
39:05 – 39:21
Aleasha Bahr
And that’s what sales usually is. It’s like, I don’t care what your concerns are. I’m shoving this down your throat. And it’s just like, I don’t know. It’s a normal conversation. If you think about what you do in normal conversations, just also do that in a sales conversation, basically.
39:21 – 39:57
Jessica Miller
Yeah, yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head, though, with this idea that people come to this playing field of sales with a very sometimes warped, preconceived idea of how it’s supposed to be, they tend to wing it. And there is structure that can be very fluid that changes everything about that conversation, keeps your head in the game in the right way, gives you the tools that you need, because sometimes it really is like, I don’t know how to move through this conversation. That’s a lot of also that I’ve seen with a lot of sales conversations I’ve had with my clients.
39:58 – 40:31
They’re not staying in that leadership position. They’re not driving that call and it goes all over the place. So, setting that structure is really helpful. Sometimes anticipating and knowing that your ideal client’s going to come with some of these questions, here’s how you want to approach that. Don’t get caught off guard. Really, they’re just able to be comfortable in it, is really important. It’s that little bit of guardrail that I think actually provides so much expansion for people. Sometimes people think they’re going to get caged in, but it’s actually the complete opposite.
40:31 – 40:56
Aleasha Bahr
It’s just like, yeah, these are the things we need to know and these are the things that I need to communicate to them. And when they feel, when they let the other person lead the conversation, a lot of times they just are so worried about getting rejected. Right. That they’re like, I don’t know what to do because I don’t want the person to say no. And it’s like, well, it’s not about rejection. Like the person wants to say yes. They are like praying that you are the solution.
40:57 – 41:18
Jessica Miller
Sure. Exactly. And knowing how to keep them also on task. You know, people are going to just have a conversation and they’re going to kind of go off sometime. Like, how do you bring them back? You need to bring them back when you know where you’re going. And having that, you know, that roadmap is really, really important. So, I love, okay, and this book of yours, when is it coming out?
41:19 – 41:54
Aleasha Bahr
It’s coming out in early January and it does break down this structure so that I don’t know. Sometimes I guess I have a concern that it sounds more nebulous. It does break it down into a structure that you can follow. Hopefully, you can customize it to yourself or you have somebody who can customize messaging to yourself. I can’t do that in a book. I’m not talking to you. But it will lay down how to have this natural conversation that ends in a sale when the person is the right fit and how to uncover that that person is the right fit for you.
41:54 – 42:09
So, a big part of it is also just giving you permission to only do what’s getting you results or feels good to you. The amount of times I’ve seen somebody who’s doing really well and then like, oh, I could do better. And they hire someone who breaks it, breaks something that wasn’t broken.
42:09 – 42:10
Jessica Miller
Even mine.
42:11 – 42:26
Aleasha Bahr
Like, all the time. Like, the only 2 things you need to ask yourself are, is this getting me results? And am I having a good time? And if the answer to those is yes, I don’t care if somebody is making bazillion dollars who tells you to do something different. Do not listen to them.
42:27 – 42:36
Jessica Miller
I love it. Aleasha, this was so powerful. I love this. Talked to you all day about it. Yes. Where can our listeners find you on the interwebs when they want to go out and check you out?
42:36 – 43:17
Aleasha Bahr
So, Sales is Not a Dirty Word is my podcast. And I have solo episodes that are like 10 minutes and explain a little piece of the sales conversation that’s very actionable. And the best place to start in those episodes is selling like a natural. And then I’m on LinkedIn. Definitely connect with me there. And my book, get my book. And I’ve had people, the early readers say that, I mean, it’s landed them $15, 000 deals. And I just had a woman tell me that it made her cry because she felt so validated and yeah, so I’m really excited to release that to everybody.
43:17 – 43:36
Jessica Miller
Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations on the huge milestone. That’s amazing. For all of you listeners, we’re going to put all that stuff in the show notes so you’ll be able to find Aleasha on the web. You’ll be able to check out her book. Aleasha, thank you so, so much for being on the It’s your offer podcast. It’s been such a pleasure and for everybody else. We will see you here next week, Aleasha. Thanks again
43:37 – 43:38
Aleasha Bahr
Thank You, Jessica
