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What you’ll learn in this episode:
In this episode of the high-leverage growth series, I’m sitting down with messaging and positioning strategist Stacy Eleczko to talk about why the right words can become one of the most profitable levers in your business.
We unpack what happens when your messaging is clear, resonant, and aligned with the real reasons people buy, and why so many business owners are sitting on ready-to-convert buyers without realizing it. Stacy shares how to identify the signals your audience is waiting for, how to understand what buyers actually need to hear, and how stronger messaging can shorten sales cycles, improve referrals, and make every part of your marketing work harder.
If your business is growing but your message still feels scattered, vague, or harder to articulate than it should, this conversation will help you tighten the foundation so the rest of your growth gets easier.
During this episode, you’ll learn:
- How clear messaging acts as a growth lever across your entire business
- The foundational strategy most businesses skip before creating content or updating their website
- What your buyers are actually looking for before they choose to work with you
- How to use real customer insight to improve messaging, trust, and conversion
- Why saying the same core message more consistently can lead to faster and easier sales
This Episode Is Part of a Series:
In this high-leverage growth series, I’m guiding you through the most powerful ways to simplify your business and increase revenue with more ease. If you missed Lever #1 (The Buyer Moment), Lever #2 (Your Offer as a Profit Lever), Lever #3 (Existing Proximity), Lever #4 (Strategic Partnerships), or Lever #5 (Messaging As A Signal), go back and listen. These episodes are designed to stack and build on each other.
Mentioned in this episode:
Work/Connect with me:
Meet Stacy Eleczko
Stacy Eleczko (E-less-ko) is a brand messaging strategist and copywriter for values-driven B2B businesses in growth and scaling stages.
Her clients are founders and small teams with a great offer and a real reputation, but messaging that doesn’t quite close the gap between “this looks promising” and “I’m in.” Stacy helps them build a messaging foundation that holds up across the full buyer journey, so whenever someone shows up, whether they’re just discovering the brand or ready to buy, the copy meets them where they are and moves them closer to yes.
With a background in education and a strong grasp of buyer psychology, she’s known for making complex ideas land clearly, honestly, and in a way that earns trust before the first conversation even happens.
She works with impact-driven businesses across sustainability, coaching, leadership, and tech. While most of her work is behind-the-scenes, she also steps on stages to speak about how ethical, empathy-driven messaging isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s one of the most powerful profit levers you have.
Jessica Miller (00:01.174)
Stacey, welcome to the It’s Your Offer podcast. I’m so happy to have you here.
Stacey Eleczko (00:04.782)
Thank you. Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. So thank you for having me.
Jessica Miller (00:08.908)
Yeah, I think we, you know, this is an example of how LinkedIn and what you’re saying out there and the connections you have manifest into real-life, you know, relationships.
Stacey Eleczko (00:19.33)
Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that’s like the story of my life. Everything always seems to, you know, it’s like six degrees of separation. It always goes back to LinkedIn somehow and building those relationships and what you’re putting out there.
Jessica Miller (00:30.688)
Yeah, it’s so great. Really, LinkedIn has been such an awesome place for me to play too, because it’s such a versatile platform and there are so many great people. And for you, where it’s about words and language, I bet it’s been really powerful for your business.
Stacey Eleczko (00:45.68)
Oh my gosh, it’s been a huge growth lever for me. Absolutely. Yeah, one, because of what you said about just being able to play around and figure out what your message sounds like and helping your clients do the same. But I’ve met so many amazing people through the platform that have just helped me. My business has grown exponentially, I think, because of the connections I’ve been able to make there. And it’s done things for my business I never imagined.
Jessica Miller (01:09.09)
Wow, and you have a really cool story. Share with the listeners how you got into doing what you’re doing and a little bit about your story.
Stacey Eleczko (01:14.348)
Yeah, so I mean, if you had asked me five years ago if I’d be sitting here, I would have said absolutely not. Like, I will never have a business. So my background was originally in education. I was a classroom teacher for years, but in that time, I also did facilitation and training, curriculum development, coaching, all of those things, and really was disenchanted with public education. So I was looking for a shift.
And I figured, you know, like, I’ll go into leadership development and training or something in corporate. Corporate didn’t really feel like a great fit for me. So I was looking for other options and actually was randomly scrolling on Facebook one day and saw an ad for a copywriting course. I had no clue what copywriting was. I’d never even heard of it before then.
But I clicked, it was compelling enough, was like, right message to the right person right when I needed it, exactly. And I clicked and I never actually took the course, but I promptly went down a rabbit hole to learn everything there was to learn about copywriting. Started to reach out to some people I knew because the initial plan was like, I’ll just find a copywriting job somewhere.
Jessica Miller (02:01.464)
Shout out to the ads. Yup.
Stacey Eleczko (02:20.319)
Reached out to a few local business owners I knew and said, Hey, I’m figuring this out, trying to get my copywriting chops, can I do some projects for you in exchange for your feedback? And I started doing the projects. And before I knew it, those turned into referrals and more clients. And all of a sudden, I was like, well, I think I started a business here. And then I got strategic about it and really built and grew that business. But it was amazing. I would never look back and I would never, never, I can’t imagine doing anything else now.
Jessica Miller (02:49.176)
Wow, that’s so funny. Oh my gosh, so as part of the series that we’ve been doing on the profit levers in your business, one of the things we talked about was partnerships and that proximity to people and how that is a lever. So it’s so cool to hear that was one of the things that you used to start your business too.
Stacey Eleczko (03:06.527)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think, you know, it’s what I’ve used to grow my business now. But I think when I first started, really what I help my clients with now and what I talk about is what I did to grow my business. It was strategic positioning and messaging because I didn’t have an existing network. Right. My network was educators who either didn’t need my services, couldn’t afford my services, right, and or just didn’t know the right people to connect to me with. So I had to figure out really, really quickly.
Jessica Miller (03:12.366)
Mmm.
Stacey Eleczko (03:34.805)
you know, what it is that I stood for, how to position myself, how to communicate that clearly so people understood what it was that I did and what I was talking about. So I think that piece came first and then that’s made the rest of it, all these other levers like proximity and, you know, referral partnerships, so much more productive and effective.
Jessica Miller (03:53.812)
Yeah, I mean, leveraging through messaging is so important. Talking to the right person, talking to them at the right time, knowing what resonates, like all of those things, especially in the internet age that we’re in right now, is huge. And then when you stack these levers, that’s what we also talk about. It’s like the power of like one plus one gives you five. It’s just so cool.
Stacey Eleczko (04:18.067)
Yes, yeah, and I think so many times people think of messaging as something optional, you know, or something that you do when you get to a certain point or after the point, but messaging is really like, I think it’s one of the most underutilized levers that you have, one of the most overlooked levers in your business, because it really affects everything that you do. And that’s actually, you know, I mentioned I started off copywriting, but the reason I shifted into positioning and messaging is because as my
Jessica Miller (04:24.728)
Mm.
Stacey Eleczko (04:47.951)
clients were coming to me,
I realized they didn’t have these underlying things. You know, like we were saying, they didn’t know who their target audience really was or exactly what they needed to hear or where they were in their buyer’s journey, what that moment was that triggered the decision. And that’s where I realized, like, we have a tendency to go to tactics, like, let’s post on LinkedIn, right? Or let’s just tweak the website one more time and then we’ll do it again in six months. And really what it is, is we don’t have those foundational pieces to make that effective. And messaging is just a critical part
Jessica Miller (05:07.02)
Yo, yo.
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (05:19.458)
of that.
Jessica Miller (05:20.758)
Yeah, take us through a little bit about like that framework because I think you’re right. The foundation is everything. And you and I talked about this a little bit offline, but in my experience, when you have a good solid foundation and you create even just one piece of good copy, the amount of leverage you get to take that thing and just amplify it out all over your business is huge. Like I didn’t know that when I first, like I think I hired someone for a sales page.
Stacey Eleczko (05:27.448)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (05:50.934)
And then it was like, my gosh, this is, I’m going to use it over here. I’m going to use it over there. I did exactly what you said not to do. I went straight to the tactic. I need a sales page. But then I reverse engineered it and came back the other way. But talk a little bit about your framework. Cause I think this is really important.
Stacey Eleczko (05:58.082)
We all do it.
Stacey Eleczko (06:06.325)
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, like I said, so I started off with the copy, then I realized messaging was the piece, but really, there’s a layer before that. And that’s the positioning piece. And positioning to me has, I think of it kind of like a three-legged stool, there’s three parts to it. And I will say generally, most business owners and even a lot of agencies tend to skip at least one of these two, two legs of the stool. And so it’s about you need to deeply know and understand who you are, right? Like, what’s your mission? What’s your vision? Why are you doing the thing that you’re doing?
who, what’s your unique perspective, voice, tone. So you need to understand those things about yourself. You need to have a deep understanding of your audience, right? You need to very clearly know who all of your target audience is, not just your ICP, not just your ideal client, right? But who are the amplifiers of my message? Who are all of the people that need to hear what I offer?
And then what is the exact thing that they need to hear? What does their journey look like? How do they make decisions? And then you also need to know this third piece, which is the market as a whole. Who are my competitors? And not just in the direct sense, but what are all the other options that I’m up against, that my potential buyer is sitting right there and they’re weighing all of these things. And that could even just be like, hey, status quo, we’ll just keep doing the thing that we’ve been doing exactly or inaction. Like we won’t do anything at all.
Jessica Miller (07:24.012)
Right. We’ll watch Netflix. Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (07:28.261)
But it’s when all three of those pieces are really clear and you have clarity around those.
It’s kind of that sweet spot of where those things intersect. That’s where you get the clarity and the resonance to then start to build that messaging. Okay, so now I have all of these pieces in place. And from there, we can start to build out, okay, what are the pillars of your brand? Like what are these, you know, kind of legs that your business is always going to stand on? What’s the big message that people need to hear? How does that relate to each of those ICPs? Even to each of those offers? I think people overlook that sometimes too, right? Like unless you have one offer,
Jessica Miller (08:05.496)
Totally.
Stacey Eleczko (08:06.669)
you need different messaging for different offers as well. And then once we have all of those things in place, that’s when we can move to execution. And we can do things like your website, your sales page, you know, any brand assets, whether that’s pitches, even just, you know, sales conversations. And I think that’s, that’s the biggest thing. When your messaging is clear,
Jessica Miller (08:08.493)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (08:27.959)
the benefits of that, it’s not just like, great, now I have an updated website. No, your sales cycles are shorter, referrals convert more often, all of your marketing performs better. And when it’s not clear, that’s when like, even though you have this amazing referral, it just stalls, right? Or they end up not coming through or you’re doing all the things and, you know, but nothing’s happening. You’re not getting results.
Jessica Miller (08:43.927)
Yeah.
Jessica Miller (08:52.47)
Yeah, you touch on a point that I think is so important and we talk so much about leverage on this part of, you know, on the podcast and with the work that we do, but also around, you know, kind of like shortening that journey to the sale. And there has to be a cohesive web. Like it has to make sense for the buyer wherever they are. And to your point, sometimes it’s a little bit different, depending on your offer, but it needs to be cohesive through that journey.
Stacey Eleczko (09:21.942)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (09:22.912)
And then the offers need to stack on each other. Like what is the overall journey? Who are all these pieces? And how do we make this thing all work together? Because otherwise it’s like one offer, drop out the back, second offer, drop out the back. Right? So there’s a very big web there that you’re touching.
Stacey Eleczko (09:36.62)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (09:41.302)
Yeah, absolutely. I created this, this visual at one point. Somebody actually asked me, can I put that on a shirt? It talked about this, like, I call it like the fantasy funnel where it’s like, you know, somebody enters in at the top, slides right through nicely, and boom, they buy. And the other graphic that I had next to it was a tornado. And I was like, this is what the journey actually looks like, right? Like people buy something, and then they forget about you for six months, right? And then maybe they see another
Jessica Miller (09:47.746)
Yeah. Yes.
Jessica Miller (09:56.43)
Right?
Jessica Miller (10:09.763)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (10:11.205)
LinkedIn post and then maybe they schedule a call and then they forget about you again. Then they hear you on a podcast, right? And they’re at a different place every time all of those things happen. And if your offer doesn’t speak to where they are in the moment, your messaging doesn’t speak to where they are in the moment, they’re just out of there and they never make their way back in.
Jessica Miller (10:29.944)
Totally. And to that end, like the cohesiveness hooks them, like keeps them in. Like if they start to see something else from you that doesn’t jive, they’re going to be like floating off into space because they have nothing to connect it to.
Stacey Eleczko (10:35.169)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (10:44.151)
Yeah, it’s like that. Have you ever had the person you’ve met that, you know, like they just show up different everywhere they are. They’re like the chameleon, right? So they’re at one place, they act this one way and you never really know who’s going to show up and you just don’t have a lot of trust with them. And to me, like messaging is all about resonance. It’s all about building trust, people recognizing, you know, themselves in your message, seeing that you recognize them. And yeah, nothing kills that faster than being inconsistent with that.
Jessica Miller (10:49.804)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (10:57.324)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (11:11.072)
Yeah, that’s so true. You know, it’s funny, I think also the awareness of that for those of us that are like, you know, somewhat aware of that. When we go to make a pivot or we go to do something else, we’re worried about being incongruent. Like people are going to think I’m a flake. You know, it’s interesting how that really does enter into the equation.
Stacey Eleczko (11:25.122)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (11:30.283)
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I see that all the time. I’ve seen that with myself. It’s like when you introduce a new offer or when you do make this slight change, it’s like, wait, people have been used to hearing me say this one thing. Is this going to dilute that message?
Jessica Miller (11:40.556)
Yeah.
Right, right, and there’s like that hesitancy around that, which also, I mean, back to what you’re talking about, it’s like, how do you weave that in in a cohesive way, right? You could be pivoting, but it still needs to be positioned correctly and the messaging needs to be on point.
Stacey Eleczko (11:57.428)
Yeah, and that just goes to deeply, I mean, I’ll say this probably a hundred times during our conversation, it goes to just deeply knowing and understanding your buyer. You can’t just understand them at a surface level, you have to know the thing. I mean, I know it’s cliche, like what’s keeping you up at 2 a.m., but that’s the thing you have to know because if you don’t know that, you’re never going to connect with them. And when you have that, that becomes the through line, regardless of what you’re talking about, you’re speaking to what they need to hear, to what’s urgent to them at the moment.
Jessica Miller (12:13.507)
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (12:25.963)
And that’s what creates that connection ultimately.
Jessica Miller (12:28.608)
Yeah, I love that. A few things that I wanted to sort of like lean into. When we talk about this idea of leveraging your business, I think anyone who’s like opted into your world is, they’re warm, right? They’ve raised their hand and they’re there and we need to speak to those people. And I think that again, that proximity to you, they’ve raised their hand, they’re warmest. So converting them and growing your business from understanding them and speaking to them is really important.
Stacey Eleczko (12:42.402)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (12:57.378)
And then there’s like that subset of people, that 2% that are just like waiting for you to make the offer to them to buy. They’re the buyers and we want to talk to them. So can you talk a little bit about like how do you differentiate those people and how do you work with people to kind of tease that out?
Stacey Eleczko (13:05.91)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (13:12.843)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think
that’s one of the biggest problems I see. Again, it’s this tactics-before-strategy mistake that a lot of people make, is they assume like, okay, we need a new offer or we need lead generation tactics. But like you said, I mean, there’s people who are sitting in your audience that are ready to buy and they just haven’t heard the thing they need to hear yet in order to buy. And so for me, it’s all about collecting real customer insights. A lot of what I’ve seen with a lot of marketing is built on assumptions.
Jessica Miller (13:34.146)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (13:41.143)
Hmm.
Stacey Eleczko (13:45.374)
and guesswork. It’s kind of why we think our buyers buy or even like I love looking at a good testimonial to find out what people loved about working with you. But those testimonials, those things, they’re all after the fact.
Once somebody understands that unique value that you provide. So it’s, you know, really digging into the insights right at that purchasing moment, right at that purchasing decision to understand what’s driving those and then speaking to that. So, like my absolute favorite thing to do with clients is to interview their clients, like recent, great-fit clients, to really figure out what was going on in your world at that time. How are they talking about the problem, right? What was urgent for them? How was that showing up in their day to day?
Jessica Miller (14:01.206)
Right.
Stacey Eleczko (14:30.655)
and what resonated and ultimately tipped the decision for them. Because when you’re clear on who your buyer is and the problem you solve, those things are going to show up as patterns. And yeah, if you know who to pull patterns, who to pull from, you’re going to pick up on the right patterns. And that’s the language you start to use. And that’s what’s really, that’s what people need to hear.
Jessica Miller (14:40.49)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (14:51.396)
Oh my gosh, I have this light bulb going on in my brain right now because I’m sitting here thinking like, my gosh, yes, I have testimonials. Like, do I ask people about this? And then I realize as I’m listening to you that in our intake forms, we always ask like, what made you buy this? Or what made you, I think we say like, what made you choose Jess and what made you buy this? Something like that. And I’m like, my gosh, all of that information is sitting in these documents. Yeah. In your business, woo.
Stacey Eleczko (15:15.885)
That’s a gold mine you’re sitting on. Yeah, absolutely. And then…
Exactly, even like discovery calls, sales calls. I also love going through those transcripts when I’m working with businesses that maybe have like a separate sales team or things like that, pulling those transcripts wherever those conversations are that you’re closest to the customers, as long as you’re pulling from people who really are your ideal fit. You know, and the people who did actually end up moving forward and buying from you, they’re telling you everything they need to hear. Like you just have, it’s right there. You just have to mine that information
Jessica Miller (15:23.501)
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (15:50.222)
and figure out how to package it for them.
Jessica Miller (15:53.228)
That is so great. I am totally going to put this on my to-do list today. I mean, I think we hear it and we utilize it, obviously, but not as intentionally as like what were their words. Like we’re not going and extracting that stuff from those documents, but we’re gonna start right now to do that.
Stacey Eleczko (16:03.767)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (16:08.523)
I love it. Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, that’s the thing. You hear all the time, like, this client came out of nowhere. No, they didn’t. Like, they were sitting there and what happened was they were watching, they were waiting, they were listening, and it was either for the right moment or the exact right signal.
Jessica Miller (16:15.692)
Right, they definitely did.
Jessica Miller (16:25.749)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (16:26.091)
Right? And as soon as you give them that signal, it’s like everything clicks for them. So they’re paying attention a lot longer than we think. And so that’s the other important thing to consider. We have people sitting in our audience right now who are ready to buy. We also have people sitting in our audience who are just a step before that, right? And so the more consistently they hear us say those things, sometimes we’re saying all the right thing. It’s just not the right moment yet.
Jessica Miller (16:43.648)
Right.
Jessica Miller (16:52.342)
Yes, yes. And to that end, I think what’s like so cool about what you’re talking about, because I’m such a data person, and I think it’s very counterintuitive for people. They’re like, okay, let me just say all these things. And if I’m saying all these things, and I don’t think that’s working, let me add in more things to say, right? But when you start saying the same things, and you’re optimizing those, like you’re saying in a certain vein, then you really can see what’s working. Right, because there’s not 50 different options, right?
Stacey Eleczko (17:18.081)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, I’ll never forget. So I had a client that actually, he came to me for website copy. We realized, and this is pretty typical, like, let’s do, we need to do some positioning and messaging work first. We did that. And before we were even done with any deliverables, we had just been talking through what the messaging, you know, might sound like. He started to play around with that in his newsletter, LinkedIn posts. And he was so excited, emailed me, and he was like, I just had the easiest discovery call I’ve ever had in my life. And he was like, because like, even though the message
wasn’t finished yet, like I was able to clearly articulate the value of what I offered and the conversation wasn’t about that anymore. And he was so excited. He’s like, she was even quoting back some of the things I’ve been writing lately. And like that’s when you know it’s resonating and normally it doesn’t happen that quickly, right? But that is exactly what starts to happen when you hear people repeating your ideas back to you.
Jessica Miller (18:05.965)
Wow.
Stacey Eleczko (18:15.059)
that’s when you know. And if you’re not tired of saying the same thing over and over, like you haven’t said it enough yet.
Jessica Miller (18:21.614)
Yes, that’s something our dear friend Elizabeth Howell, who might be listening to this podcast, she says to me all the time, you create it, it’s not in isolation, and you use it forever, but you’re creating these connections, and then it’s really creating this ecosystem for your people. And it’s brilliant because that kind of media amplification is also such a lever.
Stacey Eleczko (18:26.078)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (18:47.415)
Yes.
Oh yeah, it’s huge. And it’s how, I mean, I think, you know, again, shout out to Elizabeth who connected the two of us, right? This is how these things happen, is when a need arises, somebody else listening there, you know, is like a part of your world and Stacey talks about that all the time or Jessica talks about that all the time. Like they’d be the perfect person to go talk to about that. And so yeah, you just never know who’s listening and when they’re listening. But you just have to be ready. If you’re always saying the same thing, you’re going to eventually say it at the moment that that buyer
Jessica Miller (19:11.106)
Hmm.
Stacey Eleczko (19:18.257)
sitting right there needs to hear. And it’s so much easier to speak to the people who are already in your world, already have some trust with you, than to constantly try and go attract new people.
Jessica Miller (19:28.302)
Yes, completely. And you touch on something about like frequency. Like how are you seeing that? Because I agree. Like I always joke like on the sales cycle, if 12 o’clock is the buying moment, when you engage with people, they’re at some point. I mean, they could be at like six o’clock or they could be at nine o’clock or they could be at like 11:55, you know, but you need to be in front of them and top of mind. So how does that factor into it when you’re working with people?
Stacey Eleczko (19:54.028)
Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. So I think one of the first things is really mapping out that buyer journey to figure out like what is that 12 o’clock? What is that six o’clock? And that’s why I love those client interviews because even, you know, we’re notoriously bad at
Jessica Miller (20:00.397)
Hmm.
Stacey Eleczko (20:10.051)
saying why we did the things we did or made the decisions that we made or what the problem is that we really have. And in those client interviews, you can really uncover, you know, like why somebody actually bought. Because the reason they say, you usually have to go a few layers deeper.
Jessica Miller (20:12.621)
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (20:24.643)
But then you can find the moment that triggered that decision. So for me, right, sometimes, oftentimes, that’s where a client had to share their website URL with an investor, or they were applying for a grant or something like that. And all of a sudden, there’s this moment of panic because they’re like, our messaging on our website doesn’t match where our business is now, right? Like we’ve completely evolved. So that’s a moment that I know. So that’s something I could speak to in my content. And I need to speak to that
Jessica Miller (20:36.737)
Yep.
Stacey Eleczko (20:54.597)
frequently in my content. So it’s hard to say like how much, but I think, you know, wherever you’re showing up, you need to talk consistently about the problem you solve, the moment you solve that problem, how that problem is showing up, your process for solving that problem, and then you need to talk about it, you know, really ad nauseam. So like if you listen to any other podcasts I’ve guested on, you’ll hear me saying similar ideas, because that’s what I know people need to hear to understand that like
Jessica Miller (21:05.163)
Mm-hmm.
Stacey Eleczko (21:24.637)
Stacey understands where we’re coming from. She gets our situation and that’s ultimately what people need. Like they need to feel seen. They need to know, okay, this person really understands my problem and they actually have a solution to it and it feels urgent enough right now that like I need to reach out to them and they are the person to solve this because. So I don’t know that really answered your question, but I think it’s just this idea of like say the same thing and say it everywhere.
Jessica Miller (21:43.774)
Yeah. No. Yeah.
Jessica Miller (21:49.974)
Yeah. And keep saying it. I remember the first time that someone, I think it was like an Instagram post or something. And the woman, she wrote like basically like screenplays for Netflix shows. So she was coming from like that side of media. And she was basically saying, no, just take your post and post it again. And I remember looking at her thinking, you mean like I said, you mean like the exact same post? She’s like, yes, I mean the same post.
Stacey Eleczko (21:52.427)
Yup.
Jessica Miller (22:19.366)
I was like, don’t you mean like a different picture? She’s like, no. And then the other day someone else was, he does video recording, Ed Omaya, who you should totally check out if you don’t know him, anyone listening to this, but he was saying the same thing. And then he’s like, here, let me give you an example. And he showed like a movie poster. And I was like, my gosh, you’re right. Like you see the same poster, right? Same tagline everywhere. They don’t change it. It’s the same thing, right?
Stacey Eleczko (22:40.651)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (22:45.667)
Oh yeah, and that goes back to your point. That’s how you stay top of mind, right? When people see it and they start to recognize it just because they’ve seen it so many times. But the other point to that too is, I mean, I think we all know there’s so many things competing for our attention.
Jessica Miller (22:51.916)
Deny it.
Stacey Eleczko (23:01.237)
and so not only do I need to see the same thing, but like people aren’t even going to remember they saw it. I actually have a really funny story about that. I saw a LinkedIn post that someone, another copywriter that I’m connected with, wrote a book and she said something in a post about her book and I was like that’s so exciting! I had no idea you wrote a book! That’s amazing! Tell me about it and everything! So she replied to my comment with a link
to her post she had posted about a month before where she announced the book and I had been the first person to comment on that. I was like you wrote a book! Congratulations! That’s amazing! And a month later I’d totally forgotten. And so we think like what we say feels so important to us, right? But like really the sad fact of it is not a lot of people are paying attention to it. And if it wasn’t what they needed right then, it went in one ear out the other. And so yeah, just, I mean, spread that shit everywhere.
Jessica Miller (23:37.282)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (23:54.04)
Yeah, right. Yes, I love this. I mean, again, like kind of going back to this idea of leverage. I mean, this is such like, it’s pure gold, right? Because if we think about like every unit of time, every unit of money, every unit of sanity, and we think of that through the lens of ROI, you know, this is really where the rubber hits the road. It’s like, okay, who’s buying? What are they buying? And what are you saying that is the signal for that person? Right?
Stacey Eleczko (24:21.782)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (24:23.03)
and doing that as close to you as you can, just like you said earlier, like the person who’s waiting to buy in is right there, and the person who’s right before that waiting-to-buy spot, where are they circling around? And then wrapping that into your 90-day plans, wrapping that into what you’re optimizing in your business around that offer, because you can see it. So like, if you’re going to work on your messaging and your positioning, make sure it’s for the thing that’s making you the money, right? You can choose.
Stacey Eleczko (24:45.057)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (24:50.657)
Right.
Jessica Miller (24:52.942)
And then like you also said the opportunity cost of now you’re taking all that language and you’re putting it on your sales calls and now it’s like the promised land. Things are great.
Stacey Eleczko (25:05.047)
Oh yes, right? Because that’s what everybody hates. Nobody likes to sell. Sorry to sales coaches. I mean, everybody hates to sell, right? But it doesn’t feel like selling when all you’re doing is just having a conversation about how you can help someone. And the thing is, you don’t really even have to have that conversation if you’ve said it in your messaging already, because they get on that call
Jessica Miller (25:08.684)
Yeah, most people do hate sales calls.
Stacey Eleczko (25:24.287)
they’re already convinced of your value. The conversation is more, is this a good fit for me and or how do we move forward? But you’re not having to convince. That’s how you end up competing on price, is when you are trying to convince people of what your value is because you didn’t communicate it clearly.
Jessica Miller (25:33.368)
Yeah.
Jessica Miller (25:36.685)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (25:41.034)
Yes, I love this. Just really in a little bit deeper to the messaging positioning, are there certain, I guess I would call them topics, but topics that you feel like you need to be messaging around intentionally that kind of are applicable to every client? So for example, you need to make sure you’re messaging and positioning in a certain way around these objections or this certain thing. What do you see there?
Stacey Eleczko (26:07.809)
Yeah, so I’m a huge fan of jobs-to-be-done theory, and for your listeners that are not familiar with that, it’s just essentially this like what is the actual job someone’s hiring you to do? And if you’re a reader, but Competing Against Luck is a great book for that.
Jessica Miller (26:12.014)
Hmm
Jessica Miller (26:23.95)
Cool.
Stacey Eleczko (26:24.099)
Like, highly recommend, but it’s really, and again, it’s why I do those client interviews, because people never buy for the reason that they actually say that they’re buying, right? So really uncovering that and speaking to that piece. And so, you know, we don’t have time to get into like that whole theory, but I do think it goes to, some of it comes up in their objections, in their hesitation. So again, this is where you go back to your sales calls. You go back to the questions people are leaving on your LinkedIn comments, your posts, right? What are they asking that they want to know about? Definitely speak
to that, but then what are the objections that come up? And then if those are objections that you can easily respond to, that’s what your content becomes about, right? Like some people have the misconception that, so for me, one of the misconceptions is we need to update our website. And really that’s a symptom, right? The actual underlying issue is rarely you just need to update the website. Sometimes it is, and that’s great, but often it’s we need to update positioning and messaging first. So that’s the thing I need to speak to because
the objection that’s always going to come up is, right, like, no, we just need the new website. So here’s, here’s why. So speaking to objections, speaking to really like, what are their ultimate goals? What are their ultimate desires? Why do you need the new website? Because you want to get this grant because, you know, you’re getting traffic, but you’re not actually booking calls. What’s the thing you actually want and making sure that you connect to your offer and you bridge that to the outcome that they actually want. So speaking to that,
speaking to their pain points. Again, how is this showing up for them? Because on a day-to-day basis, there are things that are happening in their business like, just lost another qualified lead. I mean, one thing that
you know, what happens on discovery calls with me a lot is most of my clients, you know, I help businesses who already have a proven offer. They’re great at what they do. They’ve grown through word of mouth. Typically, they hit a wall when it comes to those colder leads. They get on a call with them and they don’t know how to clearly communicate that value. And that’s the problem for them that’s showing up, is this dread over this next call or this like, okay, I’ve grown my business through word of mouth, which is great, but
Jessica Miller (28:29.034)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Miller (28:34.229)
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (28:38.997)
is that scalable? I don’t know when the next referral is coming in. So speaking to those underlying things. And then I think, and this is an area I know I need to grow for sure, like the process, right? How do you solve that problem? Because people need the behind-the-scenes kind of look into what is it like to work with you. That’s a huge way to build trust. So I think it’s figuring out objections, pain points, desires, motivations, and making sure you’re speaking to a mix of all of those
Jessica Miller (28:43.276)
Right.
Stacey Eleczko (29:08.897)
things across your messaging.
Jessica Miller (29:11.168)
Yeah, I think that is so true. And again, so much of this stuff, it’s right in there. It’s in there with what people have chosen to come into your world. It’s in there with your current clients. It’s in there with your past clients. And the interesting thing that you said that I also think is very true, and I’ve said this for years, and you just kind of touched on it, which is, like you said earlier, a lot of people, they
Stacey Eleczko (29:21.943)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (29:36.426)
don’t love sales. Like they love everything in their business except for sales. And that like breaks my heart because getting on a sales call with somebody who has a problem that you could help solve is like one of the most altruistic things you could ever do in your life. Like you’re giving them your time. If the sales call is valuable in and of itself, whether they buy from you or not, they’re going to get something that could help them make the next best decision. And if you can actually help them, then you’re going to give them a solution to their problem, which is also a gift.
Stacey Eleczko (29:49.228)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (30:00.11)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (30:06.562)
But what I think is so crucial is that when you work through the stuff you’re talking about, like the positioning, how do I fit into the world, where does this fit? What are the exact words that when I hear them, they resonate with me? The confidence and clarity that comes out of that, that you bring to the sales call, not only in the way that you’re saying the thing, but in your energetic amplification of that, is huge. It’s huge.
Stacey Eleczko (30:23.939)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (30:33.27)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (30:34.988)
Like you need to sell yourself on it first and then you quote unquote sell everybody else on it. But that comes to me through the work you’re talking about.
Stacey Eleczko (30:43.851)
Absolutely, yeah, it’s all about having that clarity, right? When you can say it, there is this whole level of confidence that comes. I think it’s like anything else, right? We wait for the confidence to do the thing. The confidence always comes after the thing. And I think, you mentioned playing on LinkedIn earlier, and I love that term, because that’s what I talk, like it’s a playground, it’s experimentation, it’s where you could see if that message resonates. And then once you find that, you have so much clarity about how to talk about it, that yeah, you’re confident.
Jessica Miller (30:55.34)
Yes, my gosh
Jessica Miller (31:01.998)
You
Stacey Eleczko (31:13.765)
It’s a service to your potential client too, because then they have some confidence in the offer too, right? When you’re asking people to invest their time, their energy, their money with you, even just the attention they’re giving you on a sales call, that’s all really valuable. And if we can help them feel confident in that decision, that’s a huge gift.
Jessica Miller (31:34.432)
Yeah. Do you have a favorite client or a favorite story that you have like that you could share with us?
Stacey Eleczko (31:40.468)
Oh my gosh, I really, I’m super fortunate in that like I genuinely love all the clients I’ve had the opportunity, I genuinely love most of the clients I’ve had the opportunity to work with. Like I’ve, but I really have had some just absolute amazing clients.
Jessica Miller (31:48.866)
Yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (31:58.862)
So there’s two stories that kind of come to mind. One, and I think this speaks to a lot of what we’ve been talking about, about, you know, like your messaging meeting the buyer in the moment, is I actually had a conversation with an attorney who was very much not in the vein of thinking that they needed any positioning or messaging or anything like that, right? So like so problem unaware that I wasn’t even considering them a prospect. And we were having a conversation and he said, well, here’s why I don’t need
to do it. All my business comes to me through referrals. And he said so they just go to my website to get contact information. And I said to him so do you know out of all the people who were referred to you how many people went to your website but didn’t realize you were the right fit and never called? And he was like, he’s like I literally never thought about it that way and I was like yeah, like you’re, that is just this conduit to the call but people aren’t going there just to look for your email or your phone number.
They’re going there because you borrowed some trust from the person who referred them to you, and now they’re just doing kind of their due diligence, and if you speak to them, they’re going to call you. And he ended up like booking a call with me, and we did this whole project, and so that was really fun because it was just this kind of like totally unexpected, that doesn’t typically happen, right? But this totally unexpected pivot, and then he saw the immediate results from that. So yeah, so I would say like that’s one of my favorite stories
Jessica Miller (33:24.94)
Mm-hmm.
Stacey Eleczko (33:28.325)
yeah.
Jessica Miller (33:30.338)
Yeah. And it’s interesting that he was like in the, thinking like, I’m looking for my business to grow. I’m thinking about this. I might be considering other things. It wasn’t you, but it’s nestled right up against you. Right. Like he’s in that buying moment. Right. That’s right.
Stacey Eleczko (33:41.7)
Yes, yeah, he wasn’t considering working with me at all. No, he was just totally like, oh, I need some more SEO, because I need to get more traffic to my site. And then, you know, we got into this whole conversation. So but it was because I was able to clearly communicate to him. Yeah. Yeah, yes, absolutely. And then I think, you know, I have another, an organizational change consulting firm I worked with, that just have been
Jessica Miller (33:49.422)
Right.
Right.
Yes, I was just going to say that. Ask him a good question.
Stacey Eleczko (34:10.153)
absolutely amazing clients. And one of the things that I love that came out of my work with them, we did positioning and messaging work, I did their website. And one of the things that I provided to them was we didn’t have in the scope of the project for me to write case studies for them. But
Jessica Miller (34:24.247)
yeah.
Stacey Eleczko (34:24.897)
because they have these buyers that come in at the consideration or decision, right, those buyers sitting in your audience are so ready. Like case studies are this critical, easy way that you can help tip the scale toward a decision. And so I actually created a template for them that they could use to then create their case studies. And I ended up realizing while I was doing that, I was like, this would be really helpful to people. So I love that story because it ended up being this idea of like, they brought up this idea that was another problem I could solve. It became
my first and so far only digital product, but that’s been really fun. And I just think when I look back through that
Jessica Miller (34:58.039)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (35:01.475)
project because they were so involved and so enthusiastic and so excited about the whole thing, it really just helped me think through even, you know, some of my own offers. But what I love is they talk about, they’re like, we literally use the materials that you’ve given us every single day. So they’re like dream clients, right? Because you don’t want to hand off this deck or these guidelines that just collect dust somewhere. And they really fully implement. So it’s been so much fun watching all of their marketing come to
Jessica Miller (35:18.878)
So good. Yes.
Jessica Miller (35:26.552)
Right.
Stacey Eleczko (35:31.671)
life with the strategic foundations in place.
Jessica Miller (35:34.446)
Oh my gosh, I love that story. That’s such a great, it’s so funny. It’s so win-win, right? Like they’re in there, they have this need, you’re noticing it, because you know your buyer, it’s helping you now create an offer. Like this is like the love fest that goes with this type of work. And then I think case studies are so just interesting and fascinating, and we’re like leaning into that too, because that’s not something that we have done and put on our website.
Stacey Eleczko (35:47.2)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (36:00.664)
But the thing that I have found so interesting about my own buyer journey when I look at other people’s things and case studies is I’m always looking through, like, do I know any of these people? And most of the time you do. It is a small world. So leveraging this, it’s powerful in ways you don’t even realize, to your point about the word of mouth and people that are going there that you don’t know are there and speaking to them.
Stacey Eleczko (36:10.957)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (36:26.039)
Yeah, I actually wrote a recent newsletter about this, about like, you know, my own buyer’s journey with certain things that I bought and how trust played into each of those things. And one of the stories I talked about was not my buyer’s journey, but actually a friend of mine does sales coaching. And I had somebody else who had been subscribed to his newsletter, was considering working with him, looked on his LinkedIn profile, saw I had left him a testimonial. And so he instantly reached out to me and said, hey, I’ve been thinking about this. I trust you.
Jessica Miller (36:35.008)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (36:56.325)
Do you feel like this would be a good fit? And you know, I was like, absolutely. And because of that, again, he went in with this borrowed trust, but, you know, there was already the messaging that was resonating with him. So yeah, it’s like these little things that we need to think about that once we have those strategic foundations, what are those other little tactical things that meet people right at that moment? Because yeah, it’s either do I know someone or does this feel relatable to me?
Jessica Miller (36:58.467)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (37:09.409)
Yep.
Jessica Miller (37:25.354)
Yes, and I’ve had that same experience. I think this is also for the listeners. I think sometimes we think like if somebody sells a $10,000 product, like they need a lot of trust. And yes, it does amplify at that level. I have been a testimonial on someone’s digital website course for $500. And I can’t tell you how many people have reached out to me to ask me what they think or they’ve seen that I’m a similar business. They may not even know me.
So I think there’s like this surgical approach that you have to, Stacey, it sounds like, of like, okay, like where are these high sort of like leverage intersecting points? And we’re not only gonna create all this messaging and this positioning, but we’re also gonna like infuse them at these strategic points that have high leverage.
Stacey Eleczko (38:08.693)
Yes.
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it just keeps going back to like, what are the moves they’re going to make? So that’s another thing I always ask during client interviews is, I want to get to the moment of the actual decision. So I will ask for the most mundane details. Do you remember how many times you went to their website? Do you remember what you looked at on their website? You know, how many times did you go before you actually scheduled a call? And then you can find out things where they’re like, well, I saw all these amazing testimonials, so I stopped right there. Or I was looking
Jessica Miller (38:17.549)
Hmm.
Jessica Miller (38:22.881)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (38:40.963)
for case studies, but there weren’t any. And so I considered other options. Yeah. And so, you know, it’s just uncovering and really just, again, deeply knowing and understanding your buyer and why they make the decisions that they make so that you can help them understand when they’re making those decisions, that if your solution, you know, really does solve their problem, you can help them understand that piece.
Jessica Miller (38:44.546)
Right, kept going. That’s right.
Jessica Miller (39:05.375)
Yeah. And one other thing that jumps out to me too, and we’ve talked about this as well, is that when you do this well, if we think about the tools that you create as levers and we look across the client journey and we think about somebody’s business and for somebody like you who has deep knowledge of this and the clients that you work with, you also then get into this place where you don’t have to do a million things.
Stacey Eleczko (39:31.917)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (39:32.684)
Right? You can implement a few really highly curated things in the business and they’re going to work so powerfully. So you can actually do less of it, get more, and use your words more powerfully, really.
Stacey Eleczko (39:49.528)
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think that’s the thing is sometimes it feels like a big investment upfront to invest in the work. But the time you get back, the things you, just purely from a financial standpoint, there are less tactics you need to employ later. I don’t need to be everywhere,
because the places where I am, right, is where I know my audiences are and I’m saying the thing I know that they need to hear. And so that’s exactly what you need to do in your messaging is, you know, that’s kind of the next step. So now we have this messaging, we know who our audience is, where are they? So we can make sure that we’re messaging to them in that moment when they need us.
Jessica Miller (40:11.522)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Miller (40:31.47)
Yes, I love this. The other last thing I want to say about this too is that as you mentioned earlier, like people are doing all sorts of things. They’re on a timeline. They’re doing all that, that kind of stuff. You know, somebody else could be doing this, okay, and heating up this client for you. And then they come in, they see your signal. It’s clear. It is on point and they buy. And I talk about this all the time because people think sales journeys are super long and they
Stacey Eleczko (40:48.555)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (40:59.864)
can be, but they don’t have to be long with you if you are actually doing this really well.
Stacey Eleczko (41:04.225)
Yes, yes, and I think the opposite can be true too, right? Like you might be the person who’s accidentally priming for somebody else. That’s a common thing that happens on discovery calls with my clients, is they’re like, look, we know we’re losing out to competitors that don’t provide the quality of work that we provide.
Jessica Miller (41:12.184)
Ariyos.
Stacey Eleczko (41:24.707)
the difference was those competitors knew what that person needed to say at that decision-making point. And it’s actually why, so I’m really excited about this and I’ll share the link with you for your audience too, but I just finished creating this diagnostic about like why more buyers in your audience aren’t choosing you yet. And so yeah, it’s a tool that basically people can use to figure out like, okay, I’ve got these buyers sitting there, they’re ready to make a decision, but they haven’t heard
Jessica Miller (41:28.877)
right.
Yeah.
Jessica Miller (41:46.561)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (41:54.654)
the thing that they need to hear yet. And so it helps them figure out like what buyers who already know about you are noticing and what they still need to hear before they decide. Because it just goes back to understanding those things. And what they need to hear when they’re ready to make the decision is very different than what they need to hear when they’re first considering all their options.
Jessica Miller (42:14.924)
Yes, and I think that is like the key distinguishing point here, you know, and what, you know, I’ve kind of harped on in the story arc, but I talk about a lot, which is this idea that, you know, the warmest people are ready. They’re in there ready and you want to talk to them and you want to understand what’s in the way of that. Yes, you need to educate people. That’s a different person at a different point, but the ready ones are the lowest hanging fruit. And having that on point makes it shorter, easier, and a whole heck of a lot more fun
Stacey Eleczko (42:35.074)
Yes.
Jessica Miller (42:44.856)
to like convert them.
Stacey Eleczko (42:46.259)
Yes, yes. And not even, you know, I also want us to think about other things that you talk about often too, like referral partnerships and collaborations. This messaging is not just for your buyer. It’s also for all of the other people that you can, you know, that can be leveraged in your business to reach that buyer because referrals are great. But somebody saying like, Jessica’s amazing, you should work with her, is very different than Jessica’s amazing because and here’s what
Jessica Miller (43:07.126)
Yes.
Stacey Eleczko (43:16.133)
she can help you with. And so like, you’ve got to make sure that it’s just so clear and so resonant. And then, you know, when other people are working with that buyer or talk to the buyer who’s in that decision-making moment, they know to refer you because they know that that’s the right moment for you to come in.
Jessica Miller (43:17.388)
You’re so right.
Jessica Miller (43:35.692)
Yeah, and you want to give them those words whenever humanly possible because that otherwise they will fill the void with their own interpretation, which who knows what that will be.
Stacey Eleczko (43:43.477)
Yep, right. I mean your message walks into a room before you do, often, and you don’t always know what’s being said, and so it’s really important that you’re making it clear, concise, and something that is kind of easily portable to travel.
Jessica Miller (43:47.726)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Miller (43:57.166)
Yes. Oh my gosh. Two pieces of swag, Stacey. That statement that you just said, your message walks into the room, and the fantasy funnel. That’s what you need to create. I want the t-shirt. I know exactly. Oh my gosh. Stacey, this is so good. So many like gold nuggets, truth bombs. I mean, we could, I could talk to you about this for the next hour. This has been so, so good.
Stacey Eleczko (44:05.667)
All right, I’ve just figured out my next two products.
Stacey Eleczko (44:17.025)
I know, it’s so fun.
Jessica Miller (44:19.892)
Where, we will link what you talked about in the show notes. Where can people find you on the interwebs to connect with you when they wanna do that after this episode?
Stacey Eleczko (44:27.723)
Yeah, absolutely. So LinkedIn is the best place to connect with me. I’m always, always on LinkedIn. I also have my newsletter that goes out weekly. And so that’s a great place to, I love having conversations there in the inbox. And then again, that tool that I’ll provide to you as well. And of course, they can go to my website, which is just my name, staceyeleczko.com. But yeah, so I would say LinkedIn and my newsletter are the two best places.
Jessica Miller (44:56.13)
Okay, awesome, and for everyone, we’ll link those in the show notes, you know, run, do not walk to go connect with Stacey. Stacey, thank you so much for coming on today, this was awesome. So cool. Yeah, absolutely, and everyone, until next week, I’ll see you then, have a great week.
Stacey Eleczko (45:04.693)
Yeah, thanks for having me. I loved it. Great conversation.
