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What you’ll learn in this episode:
What does it take to build a business where your people, your time, and your vision align seamlessly for success?
In today’s episode, I sit down with Jacob Karnes, owner of Waves Business Coaching, to explore how his decade at Chick-fil-A shaped his philosophy on leadership, culture, and unlocking the full potential of a team. From transitioning into entrepreneurship to cracking the code on managing Gen Z employees, Jacob shares invaluable insights on creating a people-first business, reclaiming your time as a leader, and scaling with intention.
We also walk through his unique framework and how he creates customized solutions for business owners that allow them to leverage the attributes of new hires and existing teams to create more time, freedom and profitability. If you are a business owner with a team, or aspiring to make your first hire, and you want to ensure that you build a powerful, sustainable asset in your business, this episode is a must! Take a listen!
In this episode, you will learn to:
- Why your team is your most valuable business asset and how to attract, develop, and retain top talent.
- How reclaiming your time as a business owner starts with empowering your team so you can focus on what matters most.
- How simple mindset shifts and tailored strategies can transform employees into high-performing, motivated team members who drive your business forward.
- How giving employees a clear path to promotion and success is one of the fastest ways to identify star employees and fast track efficiency.
Mentioned in this episode:
Free eBook – Master Your First Job
Work/Connect with me:
About Jacob Karnes
Jacob Karnes is the founder of Waves Business Coaching and the author of Master Your First Job. With over a decade of experience at Chick-fil-A—both in-restaurant and at the corporate level—Jacob honed the art of team development. Today, he helps business leaders build and develop high-performing teams that drive success. Through his coaching, Jacob provides leaders with the tools and strategies to create their dream teams and thrive in business. He lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife Addi and daughter Jamie.
Jessica Miller
00:01 – 00:
Hello everyone and welcome to this week’s episode of the It’s Your Offer podcast. Jacob, I am so excited to be here with you in the studio. Yeah, this is gonna be an awesome conversation. For our listeners, tell them who you are and a little bit about you.
Jacob Karnes
00:08 – 0015
Thanks for having me.
Jacob Karnes
00:15 – 00:48
Yeah, I’m Jacob. I am a business coach. I help business leaders build the dream team their business needs so they can get the freedom they deserve, and I love building high-performing teams. I worked for Chick-fil-A for 10 years, which I think is one of the best organizations in the world for developing talent. And so, I feel like I got a master’s degree in team building from Chick-fil-A before I started my business in 2023. And I wrote a book called Master Your First Job to help young employees thrive in their first role and as a tool to help business owners develop their young talent, especially those first-time employees.
Jessica Miller
00:48 – 01:15
I love this. This is going to be such a great conversation because you and I have talked about this. Your people and the relationships that you have with them, they are the lifeblood of your business. So many of us as entrepreneurs and business owners are always wondering how do we attract good talent? How do we retain them? How do we think like they think? And then there’s so many people out there who are looking for great employers. And it’s just a match made in heaven when we can figure out both sides of this equation.
Jacob Karnes
01:15 – 01:43
That’s right. And, you know, you and I have both been on the employee side. I don’t employ anyone, but you know, I was a leader employing young people and had, I mean, 120 people reporting to me at one point in a role. So, I feel like I’ve been on both sides, and I’ve seen the benefit of having an incredible boss who cared about me as a person and also being that person to kind of develop these young talents. And I’ve seen the buy-in that when you get that right. And I work with a lot of businesses who
Jessica Miller
01:43 – 02:00
don’t get it right. And so, I’ve also seen the, you know, how much it costs whenever you don’t get this right, both literally and relationally. It could be a high cost and people are the most expensive, most difficult, most challenging part of every business. And so, getting that right is crucial.
Jessica Miller
02:00 – 02:04
Yeah, and so this is a huge opportunity for your business here, Jacob. My gosh. So, I want to talk about you. As you mentioned, you worked for Chick-fil-A and you have always had such awesome things to say about that. Tell us a little bit about your experience there and what that was like.
Jacob Karnes
02:04 – 02:16
That’s right.
Jacob Karnes
02:16 – 03:15
Yeah, so I started working for Chick-fil-A. It was my first job. So, I was in high school. I got a car, but that was not free. That was a, pay your parents money because they bought it and I’m rebuying it from them. And I needed a job and I applied to two different golf courses because I played golf in high school and I was like, this will be a breeze. Like, wash them golf carts, play golf on my days off, whatever, and then reluctantly applied to Chick-fil-A and Chick-fil-A called back very quickly and my parents were breathing down my neck for getting car payments then. So, it was not my first choice, work for Chick-fil-A, but I fell in love with it. And the reason I fell in love with it was kind of like I say the core values, principles, purpose, whatever your buzzword is for that in the business. But for me, Chick-fil-A, that culture was felt not just from the guest perspective, but also within the team as well. And so
Jessica Miller
03:15 – 03:25
I found myself, I’m very competitive. And so, I found myself in an environment that was competitive in a really good way. Like I love seeing how many cars we could get in the drive-through in an hour. And I’m sure our guests love that as well, because that means they’re getting through a lot faster. I loved the hospitable environment. Chick-fil-A cares deeply about developing its own people. It’s one of the best organizations in the world for if you can get in, that you can move up and they value the people that work for them and keep them there longer.
Jessica Miller
03:26 – 04:11
I worked for some; I mean several that I can name incredible bosses who developed me as a person. I kept finding opportunities of how to grow within the business. Even if it wasn’t a promotion, I always found myself finding opportunities of, I can grow in this area. And then I’m looking at what I’m studying in school and I’m like, huh, what does this look like long-term? Like I’m doing everything I love and everything I thought I would do outside of Chick-fil-A. I’m doing that within Chick-fil-A. What if I stayed here long-term? And so, I ended up staying 10 years. I worked seven years in a restaurant. I actually got a job at the corporate office and worked there for three years in learning and development. And it was a blast and I can’t say enough good things about Chick-fil-A.
Jessica Miller
04:11 – 04:24
Wow. Yeah, I love that. Let’s talk a little bit about that. I’d love to hear some of the ways that they really incentivized you and helped you feel like you were part of it. And they were smart enough to understand that that was going to help their business. So, what are some of the things that they did to either give you additional responsibilities, develop you, let’s just say when you were actually like in the restaurants, because, you know, a lot of my clients, especially they’re brick and mortars and restaurant is one of those things where
Jacob Karnes
04:24 – 04:51
people are a limited resource and margins are very thin. Talk a little bit about what did that look like, that incentive program, for lack of a better word, look like for you when you were inside the restaurants?
Jacob Karnes
04:51 – 05:10
Yes, what are some of these side things that kept me motivated outside my normal?
Jessica Miller
05:11 – 05:19
Yeah, yeah, or how they even approached it that made you feel like you were buying in.
Jacob Karnes
05:19 – 06:06
You know, I’d say even starting out very young when I was not a leader, just an everyday employee, trying out new positions in the restaurant. So, trying out new jobs. So, at Chick-fil-A, obviously there’s several different jobs that, you know, luckily for them, you can move people around. So, whether it’s not just front of house, back of house, but even in the front of house, whether it’s taking orders in front counter, you know, being in the dining room and doing hospitality in the dining room. There’s order takers in the drive-through, there’s food runners in the drive-through, you could bag the food. So, Chick-fil-A has the luxury of having a lot of different roles people can do. And so even going from, you know, I saw it as a quote unquote promotion to go from, I’m on dining, a different counter to, they trust me enough to do drive-through at this point. Like that sounded fun. And then even going into the kitchen and seeing, ooh.
Jessica Miller
06:06 – 06:32
What’s this like? Which I saw as a downgrade initially. Had no idea that they got paid more. So, shout out to the kitchen. And yeah, like I found myself enjoying that and being competitive. So, I think even a small thing of giving people something that’s outside of their normal scope or a new responsibility, I think as a business owner, you can think about it as, they’re not going to like that. I’m just giving them more to do. But if you have a very monotonous job.
Jessica Miller
06:32 – 06:40
Giving someone something to do that’s outside of the normal scope of work can be a very good and freeing thing that people actually really enjoy doing and would love that different responsibility to learn something new and just get out of their normal rhythm.
Jessica Miller
06:40 – 07:05
Yeah, I think there’s also this piece of being chosen. Do you know what I’m saying? Like someone is coming to you and choosing you to give you this opportunity. And then to your point that you made, it’s also different, right? It’s now variety. And I think people love variety. And if you’re competitive by nature, this feeds right into that like new thing, how do I do it better? How do I do it faster? Sort of mentality, which is really interesting.
Jacob Karnes
07:05 – 07:39
That’s right. That’s not, you know, the competitive nature is not the same for everyone. But to your point, variety is a thing that’s the same for everyone. I don’t know of one person who’s just like, I do the same exact thing eight hours every day and I want nothing different. You know, like I feel like that’s very few people. That’s a very small minority.
Jessica Miller
07:39 – 08:15
Right, exactly. I think people actually also are very purpose-driven. Like they want to do better. They want to do more. What are your thoughts on that?
Jacob Karnes
07:39 – 09:03
So I’m a big believer in this. You and I have a business code certification from Business Made Simple. Don wrote a book called Here on a Mission that was really based on Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning, which I am a big believer in his thinking there. Although it’s a theory, I believe in it and logotherapy was kind of how he helped people fight, I say fight apathy, right? And like find purpose and meaning in their life. I’m a big believer in that, that people are purpose-driven and that when people are not purpose-driven, that’s when they go looking for other things to be fulfilled. But when they have purpose, it’s very fulfilling and is a huge motivator and driver in all areas of life. And if they find that at work, you’re gonna find people are not only more motivated at work, but also at home and a lot more motivated at their job, which again, benefits your business, but it’s good for the human being as well.
Jessica Miller
09:03 – 10:03
Yeah, I love that. Absolutely. And so, as business owners now, I want to say we’re wading into these new waters of a different workforce, I would say, than when I was like in my 20s when I started. And we need to understand, to your point, their purpose, how they think, what motivates them, so we can help foster the development of what I think is an incredible labor force. And also think about it strategically from the perspective of resources in our business. To your point, and I think this is true in almost every possible example I could think of, whether it’s in business or life, when you find that perfect synergy, it is win-win for everyone. So, we don’t want to be in a situation where we’re business owners shoehorning our workforce into what it is that we want to the extent that they’re unhappy and we’re experiencing this turnover and just apathy, which I think comes from it. And we don’t want to get into a place where we’re forced to change everything in our business. In some ways, we can’t do that and survive so that we’re unhappy and they’re thriving. But there’s that place in the middle. So, let’s talk a little bit about this generation that’s coming up and I think giving us some really great opportunities to learn things. And we have the opportunity to give them some great learning experiences. So, tell me a little bit about what we’re seeing with sort of that end of millennial, Gen Z coming in. You said it was Gen Alpha is the next one after that. I’m learning these terms now. Tell me a little bit about what you’re seeing with them and sort of their quest on their hunt for their first jobs and wanting to make a difference in the world. What do we know about them?
Jacob Karnes
10:04 – 10:44
Gen Alpha is next, they’re coming quickly. Yeah. I’ll start with bad news and get to good news. So bad news is, it’s not really bad news, but it’s never been better to be an employee. I think we’re in this employee empowerment movement of, Millennials started this and Gen Z have really taken hold of it of, hey, we’re not just doing this to get a paycheck and, you know, questioning, why in the world would you go above and beyond your job responsibility for getting paid the same amount? Like, why try any harder? We’re in this to clock out at five or pick your time and to go home. And we’re going to ask for more benefits. We’re going to ask for higher pay. Average wage has shot up in the last five years or so. Exponentially, way more than the previous 10 years. In the last five years, the average wage has gone up where honestly, you know, I know there’s a lot of talk about federal minimum wage needs to increase and stuff. No one’s employing people at federal minimum wage. You’re not going to keep employees at that. Like average wage right now, say at a brand that I work with, is a little over $16. And so, I mean, it’s crazy from where I started at 7.25. So, we’re in this employee empowerment movement.
Jessica Miller
10:44 – 11:43
So with that, I think you’ve had employers, so business leaders, business owners, bosses, have this perception that Gen Z and these young workers are lazy. This is like the number one thing I hear is, man, this isn’t the same as when I was a kid or when I was working at my first job. I just showed up and worked hard because I wanted to earn my paycheck. These kids are showing up now expecting me as the business owner, business leader to go above and beyond and basically serve them and pay them on top of it. They want all this extra stuff. They’re lazy. And I just think there’s a giant disconnect between the reality and the perception on both sides. The number one problem I’ve heard from employees, young employees especially, and from employers is this idea of laziness, but how the employees see it is they’re very apathetic. And it’s because, to your point, they’re not finding purpose in their work. So, when they don’t find purpose in their work, that’s when you start to see these symptoms, not the cause, but these symptoms of, I don’t care, I don’t want to be here, I’m going to do the bare minimum, get my paycheck and go home. And so, apathy is a huge problem that I see with the young workforce.
Jacob Karnes
11:43 – 12:41
And I think that both sides can work hard to fix this. But again, as the business owner, if you want to see the results, you better put in the effort first because you’re not going to see them putting in the effort first unless they read my book. And then maybe they’ll read chapter four and put in the effort themselves. But I think it’s on business owners to fix this.
Jessica Miller
12:41 – 13:08
And how have you seen them do this well, Jacob? Or how have you helped people see this? Because I think if I’m just putting myself in the business owner’s seat, that is awesome. Yes, I’m like, yes, I am bought in. Now, how do we do it? Because I think a lot of people are probably either doing it wrong or not doing it at all, because they’re not sure exactly how to operationalize that.
Jacob Karnes
13:09 – 14:23
Yeah, let me put on my business owner hat and walk through like a, maybe a misperception. So, I’m hiring someone and I’m like, okay, when I was working, when I gave someone a paycheck, you know, that was all I needed. I needed the paycheck that gives me food and water, right? That gives me a roof over my head. And so, if you think about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, I don’t know if you’re familiar with this or not, but levels one and two are psychological needs. So, food, water, warmth, rest. Level two being safety needs: security or safety, a roof over your head. And probably for the previous 20 years or longer, that’s really all employers had to worry about was employees are going to get a job to solve their levels one and two needs. Now in, I’ll say, westernized American culture, that’s no longer the case. Employees are walking into a job knowing they’re gonna get paid and knowing that because average wages have gone up, they’re gonna get paid a decent wage. So, they know at the end of the day, whether I work hard or not, I’m gonna have levels one and two. I’m gonna have my psychological and safety needs met. For them to actually work harder and wanna be there, we need to then solve the rest of the needs as employers. So, self-esteem, belonging, love into self-actualization, which is where people actually have that intrinsic motivation and wanna be there.
Jessica Miller
14:23 – 15:20
There’s apathy because employees are wanting more than what they’re expecting. They’re expecting to get these other needs met, right? And employers are like, but I’m giving you a paycheck. Like, what do you mean you need these other needs met? And it’s just a different mindset. It’s not worse or better, it’s different. And so, we have to help employees fight apathy. One of the things you’ve already hit on, Jessica, is can we find projects for them to work on? I’m a big believer that when you have something to do, that takes your time and attention, even purpose in, you will not be apathetic. And what this doesn’t have to be is this does not have to be some, you know, hey, will you redo our mission statement, company values, like reorganize the entire store if it’s brick and mortar, like it doesn’t have to be that. It could be, hey, you see this shelf. I really don’t like the way it looks. Can I just give you the freedom and autonomy to like, you just make it better? Like, here’s some guidelines, but make it your own, right? And maybe normally they’re just a cashier taking orders and now you’ve given them this shelf to reorganize. A Chick-fil-A always uses the example of like, hey, we have a soft shelf in the back somewhere. It’s a mess. People are always, you know, making a mess of it. It’s not labeled. Can you just reorganize this for us? And you’d be amazed at how, because it’s outside the normal scope of work, it’s going to take their time and attention. You’ve given them a little bit of autonomy and freedom to make it their own.
Jacob Karnes
15:20 – 16:46
That they will buy into that and they’re gonna love it. And you’re like, but it’s just a task. Like what do you mean they’re gonna love it? It’s a project that is taking their time and attention that they’re gonna find purpose in. And if that one doesn’t work, try something else. And so, the action step for business owners, my first one is always, hey, start thinking about projects at work that take maybe your time and attention as a business owner that you could give to someone else. Break them up into small parts. It can be a 20-minute project that gets someone out of the normal scope of work.
Jessica Miller
16:46 – 17:59
Yeah, it sounds like there’s also you, you mentioned it. It’s the autonomy. It’s the believing that you are able, and I trust your sort of judgment on this to be able to do this. Here’s the guardrails, but then how you get there is really up to you. And I have found in my own business, that was a huge shift. It also helped me learn what it really means to delegate. It’s like, here’s the outcome I want. I don’t care how you get there. You know, we’re giving you these parameters but at the end of the day, this is what we’re looking for. And I found that gives people a lot of freedom to try different things. It gives me a huge opportunity because I cannot tell you the things that people that have worked for me know how to do that I don’t, and I would have never gotten this result in that way. But I think there’s also another part of it for the actual business owner that’s really positive. And that is instead of micromanaging the person, you’re managing to the outcome.
Jacob Karnes
17:59 – 19:05
And they’re bought into it, it’s clear. And then you can say, this is what the expectation is. And then are you meeting it? Are you exceeding it? Are you completely missing it? Are you sort of hitting it? Like, where are we with that? Where it almost becomes less about you and more about the business result, but you’re the conduit to it. And it makes the conversation a less like me and you. This is like what I think, this is what you think, that I found to be really powerful.
Jessica Miller
18:19 – 19:01
I guess the question that I would have is, how do you decide which project to put people on? So, to your point, like we don’t need to redo the whole mission statement. But are there certain ways that you help people see certain qualities in people or different things to look for that would make the project that you pick a good match for the person, for the employee?
Jacob Karnes
19:01 – 20:30
Yeah, I’ll add to your previous point. I am a recovering micromanager. So, I totally get the, I’ve had to let go of a lot of this too. So how do you identify the right project with the right person? This goes back to something else you need to do as a business owner, which is if people are looking for belonging, you need to create the space where work relationships foster. You can foster work relationships where they thrive. That does not mean you need to force people to be best friends, but you need to be intentional about creating space for your employees to interact with one another outside of their normal scope of work. And it can be something as simple as, you know, a break area and making sure people are actually taking a break away from their workspace, away from the work to just like chat. How’s your day? But the other side of this is as a business owner, do you know your employees? Are you taking time on the floor or, you know, during the day to just, hey, do I know you well enough so that I can match you to the right project that’s for you because it’s gotta be personal. And if you’re not taking time to do that, again, that time is an investment, right? It might seem like a quote unquote waste of time to go on there and say, you know, I hate that I’m having to spend two hours today just walking around talking to people. I have X, Y, and Z to do. I would ask you, what’s the time, like what’s the cost of not doing it, right? Because how much time is it going to cost you to hire, train, and develop someone else to come into your business and do the same exact job, where you could have retained that person who’s going to work even harder because you have a relationship with them. We’re not robots. My competitive ape brain would love for everyone to just, hey, I said this one thing and everyone does it to the highest standard possible immediately. That’s not how I work. That’s not how anyone else works. And so, it’s all about relationships. And if you’re not cultivating those work relationships, then you’re not gonna be able to find the right project for the right person. It all starts with those relationships.
Jessica Miller
20:30 – 21:52
Yeah. And I think that touches on a really important point, which is the exchange between two people, boss and employee or two coworkers, it’s energetic. People know when you care about them. They can feel it. And so, I think it’s really important that there’s that pure of heart, like as employers, and I even think as employees, we need to understand that when we get to that place where we’re sort of centered and we have our intentions in the right place, it really does come through to the other people that we’re engaging with. That energy is really what fosters those relationships. And those relationships are what really are the, that’s the trust that’s created over time that makes these exponential growth opportunities in your business, both for your business and for you as an employee who’s charting your career. And I think when you take the time to really get to know people, that’s the thing that comes through. It’s not so much like what you’re saying or what the exact project is. It’s like this person really cares about me. They’re looking for ways to help me grow. I don’t know if I love organizing this shelf or not, but I feel a connection to it and a purpose to it and I’m gonna do it really well. And I think your employees know when you really care about them.
Jacob Karnes
21:52 – 22:50
I’ll add a tip here and this is a good life tip: write stuff down because if not you’re gonna forget and I don’t think it makes it, I think there’s a perception that, you know, if I take out my phone and start taking notes while someone’s talking to me that I’m not listening or they don’t care enough to remember, I think you care enough to write it down, right? Like I had a kid that worked for me who, you know, played football at one of the high schools around us and so like in the offseason he would work and then he wouldn’t work during the season. And we just kept up with like, how’s the team doing? And we’d text him on Saturday mornings and be like, hey, you know, great win last night. So, I all won with this score. And he wasn’t even working for us during the fall. But again, it showed that, like, we care about you as a human being. You’re not just a computer that, you know, we input money and you output work. You’re a human being and he loved coming back to work. I mean, literally, for three years in high school, he worked for us. And I really do think it goes back to, he had relationships with us.
Jessica Miller
22:50 – 23:31
So why would he want to go work anywhere else when he has these relationships at work that he loves? He’s having fun. He loves being there and he knows his leaders care about him. Yes, and you just touched on it. It’s the fun factor. I mean, people want to go to a place where it’s enjoyable. All that dopamine pays off in business. It really does. And I was that kid too, in college. I would drive home on the weekends sometimes, you know, 180 miles just to help out my employer because I was getting paid great money. They cared about me. I was in college like you. I needed to pay for my car and all the other things that we did in college. And I would do it. But on those holidays and summers, I came back. I still talk about how it’s the best job I ever had. It’s awesome. So, I think you’re right. It really matters. It sticks for sure.
Jacob Karnes
23:31 – 25:03
It’s so important. Chapter 10, I was the most important chapter in my book. It’s called Have Fun. And I’m like, for my advice to employees is, have fun at your first job. You only get one of your first few jobs this one time, where maybe it’s not totally disposable income, but you’re not having to support a family yet. You’re young and just working a job and it’s fun. Hey, have fun, make friends. I wrote several stories in the book about, to your point, when I was an employee at Waffle House after close… do y’all have Waffle House in the Northeast? Okay. I’m like, I know it’s very popular in the south, but like, you know, the 24 seven diner or whatever. You know, after close, we play football after work. It was a little grass patch behind our restaurant. The street light was perfectly shined on and like it’s 12:30 and we’re playing football up there. And it’s like, yeah, I can’t do that now, but I’m glad I did it then and had fun. And as an employer and to that point, we had leaders that were leading these things of like, hey, the manager was going to Waffle House with us and hey, manager, playing football with us. And again, it’s like, they’re having fun. They’re not doing it for you, that wasn’t part of their job description, but they’re having fun too. And so, when you focus on these relationships, I think the fun comes naturally because you’re gonna get to know people that are good people. You know, I’ve never looked back and been like, man, I’m mad that I talked to all those employees because I didn’t find anyone that I liked and I never had a fun conversation. Never. You know what I mean? Like it always ends up being fun as the result.
Jessica Miller
25:03 – 26:02
Right. Yeah, I love that. So, when you’re going in and working with businesses, so they’re hiring you, these are the types of things I think that you’re focusing on. So, talk a little bit about sort of the structure of your programs and your offers as you go in to work with these people. How does that look when you work with them? What are you helping them?
Jacob Karnes
26:02 – 27:53
Yeah, so we always start with clarity, which is, you know, I think on the front end of not just like, yes, let’s, what’s working clarity for your business. What’s your mission and values as a business? But the purpose of that is I think the most important thing a leader can do is offer clarity to their team. All this other stuff is amazing, but if you’re finding, you know, if you’re finding a project for them to work on, you’re focusing on relationships, you’re having fun and no one knows how to their job, you have failed as a leader. So, like, I’m like, my hot take is I will take, this is not the best outcome, but I will take the jerk boss who’s clear over the fun boss who gives no clarity 10 times out of 10. So how can you offer clarity as a boss? One, do people know where the business is going? Right? Do they know what your most important goals are? I knew as a 17-year-old that drive-through was one of our top three priorities at Chick-fil-A and specifically car count during certain hours. So, I knew that, hey, when it’s nine to 10 a.m., when it’s 12 to 1 p.m., our focus is the drive-through and getting as many cars through as possible and that they get the right food too. So very important. Can’t miss that one. So, like I didn’t think about it then, but in hindsight, the fact that they had a shift of probably at that time, 60 people at once all knew these are the times that are most important. And here’s the most important goal. That is huge. That you can have an entire team moving in the same direction. And it sounds so simple, but way too many businesses don’t get this right. And so, can we identify one to three priorities? Because if everything’s important, nothing’s important. And this is a big challenge to Chick-fil-A because there are, I kid you not, probably 200 metrics you could look at to judge your performance. But some of them have to be most important over the others.
Jessica Miller
27:53 – 28:44
Yes. And you actually just to touch on that, Jacob, it’s not, it’s they’re moving all in the same direction, right? They’re all focused on the same thing. But the other piece is that they knew crystal clear what the most powerful lever in that business was at that time. So not only are they saying, hey, let’s be clear. It’s this thing. And now everybody knows what that is, but it was one of their number-one profit levers and they had everybody focused on that. So clear. If those cars are coming through, you’re winning and the business bottom line is winning. Like everyone is, it’s all working together. So yeah, I love that. That’s awesome.
Jacob Karnes
28:44 – 30:14
And I’ll add with clarity, then it goes down to, do people know what their job is? Are they clear on what their roles and responsibilities are? Which again, sounds very simple and it’s like, yeah, I have job descriptions. Go take a look at them. Are they really clear? Or is there a lot of jargon? Like you gotta have some legal stuff in there, right? Like you gotta check the legal box, make sure an HR professional checks off on your job description. But is their job crystal clear of, hey, here’s what’s expected? Here’s how you’re gonna be judged, right? Here’s how you’re gonna be evaluated on performance. Here’s how we give feedback. And here’s the key here, so far as young employees too, when we’re going above and beyond those psychological and safety needs, do they know how to grow? Is that clear? So, this is something I do with teams is, from day one, what if during orientation, you showed this day-one employee, hey, just so you know, if you ever wanna make more money, here’s exactly how to make more money. Do you want to get promoted and be a leader here? Here’s exactly the process. And here’s the resources in your hand now. And if you have any questions, this is the right person to ask. This is available to you on day one. And what this does is one, it offers clarity, which you’ve already hit on is extremely important. Two, your highest performers are going to take that and run with it and self-identify themselves. So instead of you worrying about, I have a hundred employees and I’m trying to figure out who this next one is to be promoted, that high performer is gonna come to you and say, hey, I’m ready for my first raise. I checked off A, B, and C. Something we had at Chick-fil-A was, we called it our level system, but I kid you not, from day one, you can make within a week a dollar more per hour just by basically flying through training. And a lot of this is self-led of like, hey, you have to like learn this stuff and then show us in an evaluation that you know how to do it, like as an expert.
Jessica Miller
30:14 – 31:27
And then for each level, it was a quarter raise. So, within the first week or two, you can make a dollar more per hour, which at that level is a lot, right? They’re going from like $9.25 to $10.25 at that point. Yeah, a dollar more an hour is a lot, right? And what happened was our highest performers came in and did it in a week, right? And there were people who didn’t care and that’s fine, we’re still gonna employ them. And then they’d come to us, you know, a month later and say, hey, this person just started making a dollar more an hour. It’s like, yeah. Remember the thing we showed in orientation? You can do it too right now. And then we have this leadership bench of people who have self-identified themselves as our highest performers who we can now go to and say, ooh, we’re ready for a promotion here. This person’s already working their butt off growing because we showed them how, right? It’s so important and way too many businesses don’t do this. And I’m like, I’m telling you, you will keep people longer and your highest performers are gonna become leaders and you’re gonna pay them more and you’re gonna be glad for it because they’re working even harder, you know?
Jessica Miller
31:27 – 32:26
Right, exactly. Like you said earlier, it’s an investment. Like the time and intention that you spend in these pieces, like you said, clarity, role identification, helping people connect the dots. We fail at this in sales and marketing too. We just think people see it, right? But you have to be so intentional about it. Make the chart, show them the thing, get them excited. Like there’s that other hell yes energy piece of like, this will be really fun and you want to do it like totally up to you, but let’s show you what this feels like and it goes a long way.
Jacob Karnes
32:26 – 33:19
And on day one, I remember, I mean, this is me as an employee. I made it a goal of like; I’m going to be at this level within my first year. And I’m like, okay, well, what do I have to do to get there? And at that point, I didn’t know at that job, but I’m laying it out. Now I’ve laid it out for my employees. Hey, do you want to be a team leader in a year? Here’s exactly what to do. Here’s the application process. Here’s who you’d interview with. Here’s the kind of questions we’re going to ask. Here’s the qualities we’re looking for in this role. Here’s that job description. Start checking off these boxes and then people are doing the role without having the title and without getting paid for it. And it’s not manipulative. We’ve shown them what it takes to grow and they’re doing what it takes to earn it, right? It’s a win-win. They’re working harder. They’re loving their job. You’re rewarding them for working harder and being more present. And the business is better off for it. You’re making more profit as a business owner. That person’s probably gonna stay and work for you a lot longer.
Jessica Miller
33:19 – 34:45
Yeah. I think another part of this that I’ve sort of uncovered, and this is a question slash comment, is that back when I was younger, I was leaving my parents’ house. We didn’t have health insurance until we were 26. We didn’t have things like that. So, we had to go out and actually put a roof over our head that we were paying for on the market. Now I see a lot of kids are staying at home longer. They have health insurance. That level of that hierarchy is actually already taken care of. They may not be funding it, but it’s not an issue for them. And so, when they’re not needing to pay for that or finance that, or that’s not hanging over their head in that way, that’s not going to be the motivator. And I think sometimes that perspective, I think the older generations need to understand that, because we’re looking at it through the lens of what our experience was, but that is not the experience of Gen Z right now. And you can call that whatever you want, but the bottom line is it’s the reality. It’s a data point. So, it’s important that I think people understand that.
Jacob Karnes
34:45 – 36:29
Yeah, you can react one of two ways. You can say, that’s dumb and that’s stupid and I hate that and they’re lazy. And you’re not gonna, you know, you’re gonna have a revolving door of Gen Z employees. Or you can look at it and say, okay, then I’ve got to change. And to me, that’s the only option. If you want business growth, you have to adapt, right? Mainly the business owner. When I work with teams, I usually do workshop settings. So, stuff like the working genius, are you familiar with that? I got certified in that. I think it’s phenomenal as far as a team method of how do you get work done and are people working on the right stuff that they’re not just good at, but that fulfills them as a way of, are there responsibilities that you can move around, where, you know, maybe as the business owner, you’ve said, this is my job as the business owner, but you hate doing it. And maybe you’re even good at it, right? Like, I hate galvanizing, right? I’ve been told I’m good at it. Can’t stand it. I hate having to be the person to be like, yeah, I’m like to rally the troops. I’m the person who’s just like, let me input what needs to be done and y’all go do it. But now as a business owner, if I have someone else who’s like, I never get to do it and that is my favorite thing, why don’t I just give that to them? That’s not demeaning me as a business owner. I’m giving someone else a job they love doing. And now again, they’re more motivated. They want to work for me longer. They’re doing work that fulfills them again, above that just paycheck need. So, there’s work that you can reorganize. That’s where I work with teams is can you reorganize some of your responsibilities? Not a total rewrite of job descriptions, maybe, but normally, are there little things you can move around based on what people, the work people enjoy doing. And again, it’s a little bit of effort with a huge payoff of now you have these 12 people who all of them were doing some work they hated. And now they’re all doing a little bit more of what they enjoy. And now the business is better for it.
Jessica Miller
36:29 – 38:24
And even as a business owner, maybe you took something off of your plate that you just thought, well, I have to do this as their boss. And it’s like, well, what if you didn’t? What if person A did this? And it’s like, huh, that was it. That’s all I had to think about. I was like, oh yeah. So, it all sounds very simple, but telling you the payoff in the backend is higher profit, more time back doing what you love as a business owner, whether personal or in the business. I worked with a business owner who has a brick-and-mortar business and he just wanted to literally, he’s like, you know what, I want to spend more time just working the line with my employees. I’m like, okay, so what are you doing right now that someone else could take off your plate? And again, this comes full circle of, okay, you want to work in the line more, you’re doing this project work that you think you have to do as a business owner. You give this to one of your directors. Now they’re doing what they’re finding purpose in their work. It’s a project for them to work on that takes your time and attention. They’re loving it. Now you’ve just gained five hours a week to just literally build relationships by working on the line, right? Hey, how’s school this week? How’s your girlfriend doing? How’s your husband? How’s your kids? They’re more fulfilled because you’re getting what they want to at work as a business owner, which is why they were a business owner in the first place. Everyone’s better off for it. And at the same time, profits going up because everyone’s working harder and doing more work they like.
Jacob Karnes
38:24 – 39:19
Yes, I want to layer one thing over this, Jacob, that I think is so important, which is in the work that I do in helping people uncover these profit levers, uncover that money that is already in the business, having them be able to hire the right people and even more importantly, utilize people to the best extent that they can so that their resource is happy, they are productive, and the owner is happy and productive. That’s right. It allows people, and this is everyone, but for the business owner especially, it lets them focus on their 20%. Everyone has their 20%, the business has 20%, you have your 20%, and there are some things as an owner only you can do. Only you can build relationships as the owner with other people. Only you can come on podcasts like this and do an interview. Somebody on your team cannot do that, right? So, by doing this, you are freeing yourself up to also focus on the 20% that’s actually gonna move the needle for you. And it’s easier, it is more fun, and people will love you for it.
Jessica Miller
39:19 – 39:55
So it is so, so, so great. I think every business needs to have you come in and help them. Help them, like you said. Get clear, like you said, it’s simple, but we’re all not doing it in some way. And the team is like, thank the Lord that Jacob is coming in to help us. Because it’s like everything. It’s hard for you to see it when it’s your own business.
Jacob Karnes
39:55 – 40:03
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, it’s so difficult. It’s like, I mean, you and I are involved with Storybrand. It’s like, I can work on my own one-liner for months. And then we come on five minutes before our call and you just, like, threw one down and I was like, wow, that’s a lot clearer than the one I had and that you came up with in five minutes. So, it’s a lot harder when you’re in it to step outside of it and see the full picture for sure.
Jessica Miller
40:03 – 40:27
We need each other and I love this. Jacob, this is so valuable. Where can people on the internet find you and tell them about your book? Because I have a copy and I love it. So where can they find you?
Jacob Karnes
40:27 – 40:48
Yeah, so I’ll give you the book for free. Masteryourfirstjob.com/free, free eBook. If you want the print version, there’s a link to buy it there as well. But the Kindle book’s $10. So, get it for free. There’s instructions on how to send it to your Kindle. Masteryourfirstjob.com/free. And then we’d love to connect with you on LinkedIn. If you’re interested in doing business with me, get the book and I’ll have your email address and I’m sure we’ll get in contact. So that’s the easiest way for sure.
Jessica Miller
40:48 – 40:58
Awesome. Thank you so much for coming, Jacob. This was such an awesome episode. For everyone listening, until next week, we’ll see you there. Thanks again, Jacob.
Jacob Karnes
40:58 – 41:00
Thanks, Jess.
